5 Reasons Why Adult Children Estrange From Their Parents

Updated on February 13, 2018
Kim Bryan profile image

I lived in an unhealthy family for more than 40 years, but I didn't make the choice to "break up" with my parents overnight.

Why Would Someone Estrange From Their Parents?

For most people, it's unimaginable for a grown man or woman to choose to stop all contact with their parents. The people who provided food, clothes, and shelter, attended dance recitals, volunteered at school, or cheered from the bleachers during every Friday night's football game don't deserve to be abandoned in their old age just because they made some parenting mistakes, right?

Wrong.

According to Monica Ross, LPC, "If either party feels as though they cannot be respectful, loving, and supportive towards the other, then yes, it's time to move on and find those with whom one can. This is true for family members, friends, coworkers, and really anyone one would surround oneself with."

Dysfunction, especially when combined with abuse, does not end once a child reaches adulthood or because the abuser begins to get old. By then, the abusive parent is well-versed in the tactics needed to make their children do what they want, and these behaviors are likely to continue right up until the parents' death, unless someone—usually the abused—makes it stop.

I am one of those people who recognized slowly what was happening to me. I didn't make the choice to "break up" with my parents overnight, and I'm not happy I have no relationship with them. I'm sad my family is broken. I wish it was different, but it isn't.

If my parents had been willing to really listen to what their adult child had to say, to respect and consider it, the outcome would have been entirely different. Yet as I've learned in my journey to understand and heal, I am not alone. Thread after thread of internet discussions are filled with the stories of people who've made multiple attempts to repair unhealthy relations and have eventually disowned or gone no-contact with the people who raised them.

Alternatively, forums for the parents of estranged children are frequented by those who claim their son or daughter never explained their reasons for walking away. If you are estranged from your adult child, chances are they have told you why—you just chose to ignore it. And it's likely that it was one of these five reasons:

5 Reasons People End Their Relationship With Their Parent

Why Do People Stop Talking to Their Parents?

1. The Parent Disrespects the Adult Child's Spouse

Like me, many consider their parents' behavior normal until they marry. Looking at your parents from your significant other's perspective can be eye-opening.

Not having grown up under your parents' manipulations, as a new daughter- or son-in-law, your spouse may be unwilling to participate in the dysfunction that feels so natural to you. The parent who has always controlled you also expects to control your spouse, and when this fails to happen, it often results in contention, smear campaigns, and petty complaints designed to either force the new son- or daughter-in-law into compliance or get rid of them entirely via divorce.

Parents must respect their adult children and their spouses, regardless of whether they like them or not, even if you have differing expectations about family roles. You do not get to choose whom your children love. Respecting your son/daughter-in-law does not mean condoning or agreeing. Whether you want to admit it or not, you are not—nor can you ever be—the most important person in your adult child's life at all times. He cares about other people just as much as he cares about you. The sooner you understand that, the better off you'll be.

2. The Parent Refuses to Apologize

The refusal to apologize is a red flag for narcissistic personality disorder: It allows someone to justify their hurtful actions and words and blurs reality. Time and again, their children will try to make them understand a different perspective, but they continue to fail to see their own culpability. They gaslight their children into believing they are at fault and force them to apologize in order to mend the family.

To paraphrase the late Albert Einstein, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. This applies to the relationship you might have with your parents. You've been running for years and yet you're still in exactly the same place as you were as a child. You might realize you have to get off the hamster wheel.

When we hurt people, we ought to apologize without justifying. Just a simple "I'm sorry, please forgive me" is enough. As Dr. Phil once said, "'But' means forget everything I just said."

I confronted my mother.... She gaslighted me, meaning she told me my perceptions were incorrect.... My mother sneered, 'You have a very vivid imagination.'

— Misty Kiwak Jacobs, A Word Please.org

3. Overbearing and Undermining Grandparenting

A disordered parent sees their child as an extension of themselves, not as an individual, and grandchildren are but one more step on the ladder of "me."

  • Did you insist on participating in naming your grandchildren? Not okay.
  • Have you ever said, "It's okay, Grandma will let you do it" when the parents said no? Undermining is not okay.
  • Did you ever demand to have your grandchildren for certain events or visits? Ask, don't demand. If you're told no, respect it.
  • Stop giving the grandchildren sugar when their parents ask you not to. How you did it then wasn't the way they did it before and certainly not the way they do it now.
  • If you still think Mother's Day or Father's Day is all about you, you've got another think coming.
  • You're not smarter than the pediatrician.
  • Sparing the rod does not always spoil the child.
  • No, it's not okay to encourage your grandchild to love you more than his/her parents.
  • Stop trying to buy your grandchild's love with gifts.
  • You're not entitled to "alone time" with your grandchildren and your insistence on such is creepy.
  • Quit taunting your grandchildren with scary stories and insulting "jokes." You're being a bully.
  • And last but not least, for the love of all that is good, quit buying the grandchildren pets without the parents' permission!

The older generation must learn the difference between parenting and grandparenting. Your days of making all the decisions are over. In this new chapter of your life, your role is to give unconditional love and guidance, but it is a privilege, not a right. A grandchild is not your prodigy, nor are they your property. Be thankful for the time you are given rather than resentful over what you think you deserve.

If you want to make sure you don't repeat your toxic parents' mistakes, read 8 Signs of Bad Parenting That Every Parent Should Know.

Parents will always hold their children in their closest circle of relationships. But those children grow up to have children of their own who fill their parents' closest circle, and the oldest generation gets bumped to the outer edges. If this happens, the older generation loses a primary relationship, so you might say that the parent's loss is greater.

4. The Parent Plays Favorites Among Siblings

In early childhood, siblings in disordered families are assigned roles as either a scapegoat or a golden child. A golden child seldom suffers consequences for misbehavior and is often praised and applauded, while the scapegoat shoulders the blame for the family's dysfunction and suffers the brunt of the consequences.

Although the role one plays may be fluid, those who are mostly scapegoats are often the first (and sometimes only) ones to see and name the dysfunction—and this seldom goes very well. Eventually, the scapegoat realizes they are alone, even among family. Some will continue to try, but many will just walk way. Cutting off toxic parents is often the only way to make sure the cycle doesn't continue.

Get therapy if you have been accused of paying favorites. Even if you don't believe it's true, talk to a therapist. Seriously, therapy.

5. Ignored Boundaries

Last but not least is the refusal of the older generation to respect the boundaries of the child/parent relationship. Because disordered minds struggle to understand boundaries, I believe this reason is better explained with examples.

  • Prying into your child's finances and/or offering unsolicited financial advice is overstepping.
  • Insisting on being present for the birth of a grandchild is wrong. Nobody but the mother-to-be and her birthing staff have the right to be in the room.
  • Giving undergarments and sex toys as gifts is inappropriate. Doing this is crossing more boundaries than I have time to list.
  • Stop insisting on spending all holidays with your adult child and behaving badly if it doesn't happen. You're an adult, for goodness sake, quit acting like a child.
  • Quit demanding "alone time" with your adult child away from their significant other. Sure it's nice, but as I mentioned with grandchildren, your insistence on such is downright creepy and concerning.
  • Discussing your marital troubles with your adult child is wrong and crosses so many hill-to-die-on boundaries. Tell it to your best friend, or may I recommend a therapist? Whatever you do, don't discuss it with your child.
  • Criticizing clothing choices, hairstyles, companions, careers, religion or lack thereof, parenting styles, and the like is crossing boundaries. It is an utter and complete disrespect for your children's right to choose what is best for themselves.

A majority of boundary crossing is rooted in a parents' inability to believe in their children. Ask yourself, "Why would my child make a bad choice? Did I not teach him the tools needed to make good decisions?" If your immediate response to is to think, "I did teach them to make good decisions but they've made so many bad ones in the past," your inability to accept your role in their repeated bad decisions is having severely adverse effects on your relationship.

At some point, the older generation must trust they have raised their children to make good decisions and respect those decisions. If you can't do this, you need to work out why with a therapist. In the meantime, keep your opinions to yourself and stop trying to "save them" or "fix" things. You're only making it worse, I promise.

They had been maligning me my whole life. . . not in a way of telling people I was a horrible person but making it seem as if I was a poor, befuddled soul, a hapless idiot, borderline mentally disturbed, a pathetic loser. None of this was true. It never was. Once I got away, my life got so much better. Oh, so much.

— Anonymous, r/raisedbynarcissists, Reddit.com

Statistics About Family Estrangements

A British report called "Hidden Voices: Family Estrangement in Adulthood," which describes a survey of over 800 people who self-identified as having estranged from all or part of their family of origin, offers some relevant data:

Who is more likely to break ties: males or females? How does gender affect closeness?

It's more common to be estranged from a mother than a father or both parents. Conversely, it's more common for daughters to estrange than sons.

However, when males estrange, it seems to be more final or longer-lasting: the average estrangement from fathers lasts 7.9 years (compared to an average of 5.5 years for mothers), and estrangements from sons average 5.2 years (with 3.8 years for daughters).

Who tends to estrange permanently: males or females?

29% of respondees described a final break with a mother, and 37% reported a final break with a daughter. Conversely, 36% described a final break with a father, and 41% with sons. So sons and fathers are more likely to experience permanent closure than daughters and mothers.

What about intermittent estrangements?

We have some insight into on-again-off-again estrangements, where family members cycle in and out of closeness over the years. 21% said their had been five or more of these cycles with mothers, where 16% experienced them with fathers. So it's more likely for mothers to experience intermittent estrangements over the years.

Who is most likely to cut off contact: parents or children?

The younger generation is usually the one to break ties. Over half of people who "divorce" a parent say they were the ones who made the move.

Is there any chance the relationship will be mended?

  • According to the parents, yes: Most parents hold out hope that they will reconcile with their child.
  • But according to the younger generation, no: More than 70% of respondents said there was no chance they'd resume communication.
  • And according to experts like Sheri Heller, LCSW, a NYC psychotherapist and interfaith minister in private practice, "If PD abusers lack the capacity for insight and positive change, it is likely they will persist with predation, denying their perfidious motives, and evidencing an absence of sincere remorse. To re-engage with this degree of pathology puts the adult victim at risk for regressing into dysfunctional interpersonal patterns, succumbing to guilt and cognitive dissonance, getting mired in confused roles, and being flooded by abandonment panic. For many, this constitutes a deal-breaker which results in finality."

If you are having trouble cutting the ties or want to know the healthiest ways to do it, read When and How to Cut the Ties of Bad Family Relationships. On the other hand, if you're looking for ways to deal with your parents rather than disowning them, read 5 Strategies for Dealing With Difficult Parents.

Will You Ever Find Out Why Your Son or Daughter Abandoned the Relationship?

The British study found an interesting generational discrepancy when it came to the communication of the reasons for the estrangement. When asked if they "concretely" told their parents why the relationship ended, over 67% said they had. This contrasts dramatically with the parents' response, where over 60% claimed they were never told why. In other words, many abandoned parents who are rejected by a child don't consciously know the reason, even though they were explicitly told. So they either forgot or didn't listen. In fact, they don't even remember the conversation.

This disparity only emphasizes the breakdown in communication in these families and suggests that the older generation might not be listening or has a hard time hearing what their children are saying, which is probably at the core of the problem.

Is That the End?

In closing, I want to say I am very well aware those listed aren't the only reasons for estrangement, nor will my advice apply in all situations. I haven't mentioned trauma, abuse, divorce, or substance abuse. I haven't talked about undiagnosed mental health issues or those who simply refuse to take their meds. That said, people don't just walk away from families that are healthy. All families have their issues, but functional families talk about them, try to understand one another's perspectives, apologize for any hurt they've caused or wrong they've done, and truly move forward, beyond all that suppressed anger and resentment.

The exact opposite is true of unhealthy, disordered families. I know. I lived in one for more than 40 years. Sadly, I didn't realize it until the abuse was heaped upon my husband and children as well, but when it became obvious, I demanded that it stop. I tried discussing the matter, only to find myself enmeshed in bitter verbal arguments. I tried using parables and comparisons, pointing out other family dysfunctions and relating them to our own, but that failed, too. I tried many ways to rectify the situation, but every time, I was met with anger and resistance.

Contrary to what they think, I didn't estrange from them to punish them, I did so to protect myself and my children. I realized I had become just like them and I made a conscious choice to change myself and to bring to an end the generations of dysfunction in my family tree.

Sadly, our story doesn't end with a happily-ever-after, but I know I made the right decision, and I know I'm not alone. Every day I read stories, online support group threads, estranged child forums, and talk with people around the globe who feel they had no other choice but to walk away. Not a single one of us is happy about it. Relieved it's over, yes, but certainly not happy with how or why.

I'm also privy to the perspectives of rejected parents. One commonly stated complaint among parents who have no contact with their children is that their child's behavior toward them reminds them of how they were treated by their own parents when they were young. If this is you, I want you to ask yourself, "If my parent was that way and my child is that way, isn't it possible I am, too?"

Some will read this and take it to heart. They'll reconsider the things they've said and done because they want to repair their broken relationship with their child and are willing to do whatever is necessary to do so. Unfortunately, however, many readers will be inclined to argue and resort to writing long comments complaining about their child to a bunch of internet strangers.

I can't change everyone. I couldn't even change my own parents. Hopefully, however, I'll get someone's attention and set in motion positive change for another dysfunctional family out there.

Questions & Answers

© 2017 Kim Bryan

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      Antonio50S 3 hours ago

      Nobody can judge anybody else. if we are happy in ourselves we wont spend so much time reading into other people comments, then finding fault in them.

      Plus bad people and good people dont exist in the way we like to think they do either. everybody understands and dose things a bit different.

      I think Bill maybe set in some ways, but that is not abuse. Some kids may even like pairents like that. Plus pairents who love there kids are always relenting again and again, as bill stated. They are probably more flexible because of that love, but that may not always good for the kids in the ( long term )

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      NarcFree 9 hours ago

      MrBill, just because YOU can't THINK of anyone who doesn't love their own children, doesn't mean those people don't exist. This world is not limited to what exists in your thoughts. There are people who go to jail for what they do to their kids. I'm sorry you can't think of it, but child abuse does happen. You can quote the Bible all you want, it's still not a defense in abuse cases. Maybe those kids who don't exhibit behaviors that you'd defined as love, just never have seen it exhibited towards them, by so called parents.

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      Antonio50S 22 hours ago

      To Kim.

      I really am aware that you are trying to help folkes, otherwise why the article ? ( no matter what ) i will always be supportive of you because of your own personal backround and experiences. i am always supportive of anyone who has experienced anything thats caused mental health issues.

      ( Regarding my perspective ) as you mentioned, its not set in stone, a bit like pauls response, ''becoming all things to all people'' trying to be flexible in understanding were people are coming from in life since we are not predictable in our behaivors like in the animal world. Everyday i wonder what gose on in the minds of millenials without judging them. I am not disagreeing with you on anything as such, and i really feel a number of things are not about right and wrongs, ( But i will say a lot of your views are coming over as a little ''Dogmatic'' themselves, and have to say these pairents you are reffering to, are ''not children'' they are human beings, and most of all, ''pairents'' ) you cannot just wipe out a whole generation of pairents, just because you think some pairents were not listerning to there kids. A lot of these kids wont listen to there pairents either. We are equal in the sence that we are all human beings, but not equal in position. if you work for an employer, we may not like there attitude or personality, but we respect there position.

      ( no matter what people may have experience ) to me its all about ''Attitude''. you think i dont know about them deep valleys myself ? Peoples perspective and experiences maybe different, but society has lost all ethics and priciples which at one time held people together. I noticed Bill757 mentioned a few of them, but nobody heres them, people here only what they want to here. So for me its all about attitude regardless of peoples experiences.

      Some of the most happyiest people in life are the ones who experinced the worst things life throws at them, and end up with the right attitudes.

      Plus people like ''William Tyndale'' were burnt at the stake for translating the bible into english, with them ( ethics ) and his dying wish was for the kings eyes to be opened. 2 years later the king authorised the king james version of the bible based on tyndales work, plus one of the reasons why america became so great in the first place was because of the puritans or pilgrims fleeing persecutions in england around the same time to the americas. A lot of constitional laws in america were formed because of them puritans based on the scriptures themselves.

      Its good to know a little history. It builds appreciation and respect.

    • Kim Bryan profile image
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      Kim Bryan 25 hours ago

      Antonio, we're going to have to agree to disagree on things because, well, we have different perspectives. I'm not going to try to debate what is, frankly, unique to each person.

      I'm viewing things from the perspective of an estranged daughter and a mother who had issues with her own children that was leading to estrangement; you're perspective is one of... well, I'm not certain as it seems to waver.

      Look, I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm right or vice versa. I am making a sincere effort to help folks based on my experiences. I am trying to do it with kindness and patience but also with honesty.

      If you disagree, please feel free to say so but please know I don't feel the need to defend myself so there won't necessarily be a response.

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      Antonio50S 26 hours ago

      To Kim

      Just responding to your comments to vivian.

      Not trying to change anybodies opinions, but a lot of what you said to vivian dont add up.

      First of all pairents are only ( partly ) responsible for who the children become, the rest is mostly free will and choice, which so many on here argue for. plus i notice a lot of pairents on here really have not done anything wrong despite you claiming the oposite. there motives and intentions are more important than any mistakes they may have made, and you claiming otherwise is being disrespecting all them heart broken pairents out there who did there best. basically your saying, there best was not good enough.

      Regarding the vast majority not wanting there pairents money ? while that maybe true, that really is just saying i would rather live my life my way, regardless of how it may effect the pairents, but i would like to make a bet, that most of these adult chidren would be fighting about what they are owed at there pairents deaths, ( And thats talking about the good families )

      Despite what a lot of adult children may think, life is not all about them, and a lot of pairents need to understand that as well, and and a lot of these pairents need to have ( self respect ) instead of some of them having suicidal thoughts. You implying the kids have allready told you what the problem is ? what i will say is, with all the conflicting views and opinions out there pulling the children in different directions, it surprising some of them even know what they want in the first place. plus what about all the advice the pairents gave there children which they chose to ignore ??? dont all that meen for anything ?

      No matter what children may have been through, at the end of the day, every good day and experience they have is a bonus, and and all ( credit ) gose to the pairents for choosing to have children in the first place. I do understand you had a bad experince but your comments come over as being bitter, instead of peace, love, and happyness you mentioned.

      Also want to say, if all we are is a product of evolution, coming from some primordial soup or slime, then theres not even a point of reference for any respect to begin with.

      Its all about attidude. Gratitude is probably one of the greatest virtues we can have, It may even be the mother of all other virtues.

      ( Gratitude leads to respect ) or it should do. but if it don't, then that's because we are ungrateful.

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      Joan 3 days ago

      Parenting was one of the most fulfilling time in my life. I was a single parent and sacrificed a lot very happily. It's hard not being the center of my kids world's anymore-theyre 30 & 27, son & daughter. My empty nest syndrome just won't go away. My son is verbally abusive to me and has estranged himself from me along with my daughter. The hurt is overwhelming. They are both seemingly happy well-adjusted adults. I have depression and anxiety and this has affected our relationship and has sent me into a suicidal spiral. I've never been in so much pain.

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      Elly The Autistic 5 days ago

      The definition of insanity is ‘doing the same thing over and over again, hoping for a different result,’ which is like trying to explain to my Mom why certain behavior(s) would no longer be acceptable…

      MrBill757:

      You said, “When a parent is being difficult to deal with and is unable to have a calm controlled conversation, the adult children need to be the adults and disengage from the conversation, change the subject, whatever it takes.” Well, sometimes what it TAKES is totally walking away to end the abuse.

      In an adult 50/50 relationship both parties should be able to act like adults which means regulating their OWN behavior. On one hand you say, “honor your parents” and that they are ‘superior’ and on the other you insinuate that adult children are responsible to make sure they regulate their parents’ behavior by doing ‘whatever it takes’. I am NOT the ‘boss’ of my Mom. It’s HER JOB to regulate HER behavior and if she cannot/will not what can I do, other then agree 100% with her all the time and/or continue to excuse her atrocious behavior?

      I do not understand why you believe that all estranged children are somehow immature or emotionally unstable. I don’t believe I’m immature, but only someone who is observing me or interacting with me can make that judgment. Just like parents who claim, ‘but I was a good parent’ – Only your children are the judge of that and if they’ve gone NC your child(ren) have given your ‘parenting’ an ‘F’.

      I really don’t think my Mom EVER loved me because she has no clue what love looks like. She MAY have ‘loved’ an image of Me or an expectation of Me, but I was not the daughter she wanted… In fact she told me that I was not ‘accepted’ by my grandmother (my only living grand-parent that I knew – the rest were deceased before I turned 3) because I wasn’t a boy. Who says that to a child?!?! Personally, I think that was more projection on her part because I wasn’t a boy to ‘carry on the family name’. That’s not a loving attitude. Unconditional love is accepting your child as they ARE and if the ‘loving start’ is ‘you’re not a boy, you’re not good enough’ things are bound to improve right?

      Love does not mean degrading/dismissing/taunting/teasing/talking down to others including your children. I love my husband and don’t treat him that way nor him me. However my mom is ‘allowed’ by virtue of having birthed me? I don’t think so… I know what healthy love looks like NOW (thanks to the love of my life – my Darling Husband and buckets of counseling) and my Mom wanted to keep being ‘her’ with impunity. So sorry I can’t oblige…

      I would never dream of speaking to ANYONE the way my Mom used to speak to me. I have never in my LIFE had a ‘calm controlled conversation’ with my Mom about anything of ‘substance’ – EVER. If I brought up that I was ‘feeling bad’ because of the constant bullying at school (cheer-led by my GC Sister I might add) the conversation immediately became, Mom crying and wailing *Oscar worthy dramatic response* “I have talked to the teachers and they just shut me down! I’m trying so hard to be a good Mother! Why don’t You appreciate Me and I’ll I’ve done for You!” And now it’s about Mom’s feelings.

      I had suicidal thoughts from about 10 on… I wished I was dead, because at least dead I wouldn’t have to endure any more abusive. Part of me knew even then that I was being abused, but when you are COMPLETELY reliant on your ABUSERS you go into ‘survival mode’ which is why most abusive victims also end up with C-PTSD, which is a nice ‘bonus’ to go with my undiagnosed Autism. Undiagnosed of course because there was nothing ‘wrong’ with me except all the things my family told me was ‘wrong’ with me. I was just annoying, bratty, stupid (nope, definitely NOT stupid – just learn ‘differently’) and on and on…

      I saw the look of satisfaction, dare I say ‘delight’ on my Mom’s face when my Sister or any other bully would drive me to tears. I would retreat and then when people would ask why I always seemed so ‘moody’ my Mom would just laugh and say, “Well, you ‘know’ Elly. Always creating drama…” add *eye-roll*

      People are quick to understand a victim like Jaycee Dugard because her abuser was a stranger/kidnapper. However victims like me are dismissed because our abusers were our parent(s). Abuse is ABUSE. No one would encourage her to write/visit her rapist in prison, but us child-abuse victims are still ‘fair game’ to our abusers because they are our ‘parents’? Again, so sorry I can’t oblige.

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      MrBill757 5 days ago

      A few things. The adult children who choose to forever separate from their parents who love them(I can't think of anyone who wouldn't love their own children even if they are bratty, ungrateful, self-centered), are in my view either unable or unwilling to have the maturity to deal with people who think differently than them. They internalize what they hear and let it bother them. They're just too fragile to handle the real world. They just haven't developed the emotional maturity to not let what others say to them affect them. It takes two to have an argument. There's two choices - either let it in one ear and out the other or take it personally. In my view taking things personally and letting what others say control one's emotions is signs of either immaturity or emotional instability. When a parent is being difficult to deal with and is unable to have a calm controlled conversation, the adult children need to be the adults and disengage from the conversation, change the subject, whatever it takes. But running away is no solution that involves being patient, kind, or long-suffering. Because that is what love is all about. Love does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. But separating one's self from their parents seems to me, a direct violation of what love is all about.

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      Antonio50S 6 days ago

      To Bala Ganash.

      I Agree with Kim on this.

      Just hang in there for now. Maybe your parents are being "protective" rather than possessive ?

    • Kim Bryan profile image
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      Kim Bryan 6 days ago

      @Bala Ganash... Assuming from your username, I will guess you come from one of the cultures who adamantly believes a child must never desert their parents.

      I wish I had advice for you but unfortunately I don’t because I’m all too aware of the enmeshment of your culture. I know it’s difficult and I am sorry you are in such a situation.

    • Kim Bryan profile image
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      Kim Bryan 6 days ago

      Vivian, first let me say,I’m well beyond my 30s and did not grow up being told how wonderful I was all the time; actually the opposite.

      Secondly, seeing things through 16 year-old goggles is exactly why I continued beating my head against a wall for more than 40 years.

      Now, that said...

      Yes, parents are responsible for who the children become, whether it be good or bad. Yes, there are a few exceptions but not as many as society wants to believe. Parents can’t take credit for good children while denying the bad. I speak from my own experience with my parents AND my own experiences as a mother.

      There is a running theme here from parents whose children are estranged from them; that is, that they did nothing wrong. Nine times out of ten, you’ve been told the problem but ignored and denied it.

      Lastly, if your children have decided to have no contact with you but you continue to send gifts to the grandchildren, that’s on you. You don’t get to complain about doing something you CHOOSE to do then complain when it doesn’t get you what you want. If it irritates you so badly, stop sending gifts.

      Listen Moms and Dads, the vast majority of us don’t want your money; we want your time, attention, and to be heard but sometimes money and gifts are thrown at us so hard in an effort to keep us pacified, that we fall into the trap of getting what we can because there is nothing else.

      So if you sincerely want to try to repair your relationship, try just listening. No anger, no defensiveness, no accusations, no insults. Then discuss, not debate.

      We (estranged adult children) have a different perspective than their children and vice versa. Just as you sincerely believe you did nothing wrong, they do. Why do we, as parents (and yes, I was guilty of this too in the past) think our perspective is the right perspective?

      Truth is, it’s not. And realizing that is what began the healing with my children. Give it a try; the results can be amazing.

      Peace, love, and happiness to all, K.

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      Vivian 6 days ago

      I can tell you that sometimes it doesn't matter how much space you give your adult child, or the number of times you try to make amends it is just what it is. Your grown child thinks you are the enemy, and will not stop looking at things through the lens of a 16 year old. You can extend kindness to the son or daughter-in law and because of their own emotional issues, they will continue to see you as the enemy and then not allow you to have a relationship with your grandchildren; but of course they will accept any gifts you want to give to the grandchildren. I am really offended by this article. It is the generation of the 30 somethings that were not made to tow the line and were all told that even when they didn't try they were wonderful. We as the parents of this particular generation need to take some of the blame. Lastly, how dare you write that it is creepy to want to have one on one time with our grandchildren or our children. I miss my son all the time and wish he would visit. I miss my grandson that I used to have over every weekend when he was little. I do not have any relationship with my 3 year old granddaughter with no explanation why. I feel sorry for you and your situation, but for you to write something like this is very dangerous to readers. I understand there are extremes that would cause fracture in a family, but to actually say that because parents still want to teach their children what they've learned, have holidays with them and etc. is enough to drop your parents and that it is ok, is ridiculous!

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      NarcFree 9 days ago

      To Lynn,

      Aren't you a ray of sunshine yourself! What makes you think the author needs to change now?

      She did already. A person from a toxic family who stood up for what's right and ended the cycle of abuse, did undergo a very significant change.

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      ElizabethCa 9 days ago

      It takes two people to make a relationship. It only takes on to ruin it. That unfortunately works on either side - if one party is determined that the reasonable boundaries of the other are an offense to them, no real relationship will be possible.

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      Al 10 days ago

      Im sad almost every time I see you and hang out with my parents. It’s nothing to do anything wrong, it’s just that the past is hard to forget now I can’t stand being in the same room

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      Antonio50S 10 days ago

      Elizabeth

      You said you was going to make distance.

      Don't let your Mom make you feel guilty over anything.

      She's responsible for her own life and behaviors.

      Her issues are not your issues.

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      ElizabethCa 11 days ago

      Antonio:

      I would say many articles like that don't really work well in situations like mine.

      For example: I never ask for my mother's input on anything. I do this because I know that it will start a fight. If I get her input, she will deem that if I don't end up taking it I am deliberately doing so to hurt her - and often her input will go far beyond what I asked. So I am very careful not to ask her anything that I'm not 100% ok with doing exactly what she wants no matter what it turns out to be.

      Encouragement - I would love to encourage her, but the truth is that even aside from her behavior towards me I think she is on a very bad path. I can't encourage her to continue on the path she is on. I have tried, gently, to encourage her to turn from it, only to be met with yelling and crying and talk about how she can't believe I would speak to her that way.

      Even talking to her, the comment you responded to mentions that. It is hard to keep in regular communication with someone who is continually insisting on picking fights, and that if you don't roll over and agree that her viewpoint is correct you are rude and disrespectful and mean. Basically when she says something, any answer at all other than "Yes, you are correct" is going to be deemed an insult to her - and she does catch on to me avoiding answering the question.

      That's where it becomes difficult to understand honor. Because you know that living your life as an adult who takes responsibility for her own choices and doesn't simply passively obey her parents, is in itself seen as rejecting the parent. There is no middle ground of "I love and respect you but ultimately I must take responsibility for my own life" - the adult child is either totally submissive or a complete rebel. That will naturally lead to more distance, because who does it benefit to have interactions under that paradigm?

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      Antonio 50S 11 days ago

      To Elizabeth.

      I don't know all the reasons why people self harm, but beginning to understand it better.

      Honouring and respecting parents don't mean you have to let them control your life.

      Parents need to understand that there comes a point in a childs life, when they can now make there own decision, be it right or wrong.

      Your parents need to understand that. And its your job to make them understand that. No self harm.

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      ElizabethCa 11 days ago

      Abuse doesn't always look like what people think it should look like. I wasn't beaten or starved or anything as a child.

      The problem was simply, in her mind, my mother was always right. Her instructions were perfectly clear, her memory was always accurate, her perceptions were universally spot-on. In actuality, she was moody and often confusing and tended to ascribe her feelings as reality.

      It didn't take me long to catch on to the fact that if she had a headache I'd better make myself scarce. If she noticed me, I would be punished for something - often some nebulous attitude crime that was never explained. If her instructions to me were not clear, I had better take my best guess at them and hope it was right, because asking for clarification would be deemed a manipulative attempt at delaying obedience. Above all, I had to never ever ever show that I was less than happy with the family. Any unhappiness meant I was a spoiled brat who needed to be punished to adjust her attitude. She would insist that if I had any problems in my life I needed to come to her first, but when I did the response was invariable anger and punishment.

      Needless to say, this led to me being punished frequently in ways I really had no idea how to avoid. I developed a habit of injuring myself in ways no one would see, because it let me achieve the level of emotional control demanded. But there's absolutely nothing there that any outside person would have seen and called abuse.

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      Antonio50S 11 days ago

      To NarcFree

      "Adahol Dads" are not the best comments ever.

      They just happen to be comments that you personally agree with.

      His comments are based on his abusive background.

      The far majority of adult children have not experience Abuse's as he claimed, and there's a whole lot of other reasons for honouring and respecting parents which are not taken into account, despite personal abuse claims.

      There's also a difference between narcissism and being direct to the point on some things.

      Bill is right. The younger generation are intolerant to other people's views, Especially the Older ones who have more experience on life, which the younger one don't appreciate anymore. There own Intolerances come over as being a little cultish, mind controlling themselves, just for trying to point out there own errors and were they are going wrong in life.

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      Antonio50S 11 days ago

      To Mmommo

      Just wanted to explain the reason for my comments on your last post.

      You did say your "half super rich sister" married a Cotholic boy. I don't have to much respect for Organized Religions. And your comments came over a little bit like ( Slander/gossip ) not into any of that.

      "Apologies" if my comments came over as a little disrespectful. Especially to a lady.

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      Antonio50S 11 days ago

      To Elizabeth - Bill757 & Others.

      ( Crosswalk.Com "How to honor your parents as an adult" )

      All the answers are there.

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      MrBill757 11 days ago

      Elizabeth,

      I wonder if just saying, "Looks like we disagree on this". I'd really like to agree to disagree on this. Would that be OK with you?" Funny, the roles are reversed with our kids. I try not to initiate any subject at all except ask how the kids are and how our daughter is doing." Basically just listen and ask questions, otherwise it can get real heated real fast. The new normal is now for people to become unhinged if you disagree with them. It's quite sad, the whole thing.

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      ElizabethCa 11 days ago

      People who can't handle others disagreeing with them is nothing new. In fact I'd say that's the largest issue I have with my mother right now - she can't handle anyone disagreeing with her. Even if I'm saying, come on, it's not important, let's talk about something else.

      It's hard to even know what honoring a parent is sometimes, with a person like that. With my mother we don't and can't have normal interactions, because she reads the slightest disagreement with her as a personal insult. I've been through it with her. If I defend my viewpoint, no matter how politely, I'm being contradictory and that's disrespectful to her. If I change the subject I'm refusing to deal with her point and being disrespectful to her. If I walk away I'm ignoring her and being disrespectful to her. If I listen quietly and don't say anything, I'm not acknowledging her points and being disrespectful to her. You get the idea - either I admit that I agree with her on everything, or I'm being disrespectful and dishonoring my mother.

      There are a lot of parents out there who think, even if their children are grown adults, they should still say "Yes sir/ma'am" and run to do whatever the parent tells them. There's no age where the adult child is allowed to tell the parent that they've made a different choice. If the child doesn't do that, they're perceived as not honoring the parent, no matter how kindly or politely they handle the issue.

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      MrBill757 11 days ago

      NarcFree and others,

      Have to "respectfully" disagree with your position on respect. Last I looked, there was no caveat to the the Fifth Commandment. It doesn't have a disclaimer or fine print. It demands honor from children (little kids and grown kids as well). Period. It's an absolute. There's no negotiation. It doesn't say only if the parent has earned it or only if the children feel like giving it. The Bible also says for parents not to "exasperate their children" as well, because that leads to all kinds of problems, doesn't it? But respect is necessary for any relationship to thrive. It's a two way street to be sure. Respect is not an entitlement for parents rather an obligation on their children. This obligation is a very serious issue if for no other reason than God himself demanding it be given.The Bible also says to remove the speck out of one's own eye before casting judgement. But to let adult children off the hook and not be obligated to honor/respect their parents because of "abuse" is in direct opposition to God's commands. You're not going to be best friends with real no kidding abusive parents, but the obligation, no command, still applies.

      But the real reason for my post is an article I came across the other day in the NY Times of all places. Not a usual source of real news for me. It was about the differences in thinking between the old guard writers and the "new guard" writers. The new guard cannot handle people disagreeing with them, period. This new guard they speak of consists of young liberal millennials in the workplace. The way they have attempted to have their views heard has resulted in what they call at the Times, a "civil war". In a world where we now take seriously the concept of raising "gender-creative theybys (a parenting style that does not assign a gender or any gender-specific pronouns to their child), it can hardly be surprising to learn that young staffers at the Times are horrified by even the MILDEST whiff of conservatism in the halls of the New York times. The young guard at the paper is absolutely intolerant of opinion writers from the older generation. Even though these old guards hate Trump and vote leftie every time, it's not enough when they don't agree with every single aspect of the new guard's views. Case in point the #MeToo movement. There are a handful of old guarders who don't go along with every aspect of this movement and are hence labeled as bigoted traitors. There's one writer that had the audacity to question climate science!! To millennial liberals, dissent from the narrative is indistinguishable from violence. How did this happen? And how is this related to estrangement? I believe that this younger generation was brought up to believe that it's very important that their voices be heard by parents like myself who lived through the radical days of the 60's when long haired maggot infested dope smoking FM rock and rollers took over college campuses. Though I did not participate, it was the 60's crowd who raised the young people we see today that demand to be heard. But as you can see, it goes well beyond listening to them. One must AGREE with them or else!! What it boils down to is that one generation came of age where they entered journalism and tried to find a way to fit into it, and this other younger generation has an expectation that the institution will change to accommodate them. That's the essence of the tension not only in journalism but in families as well, hence a huge increase in family estrangement. It's a problem not only in families, but in Hollywood, college campuses, and nearly every workplace in America. Entitled brats who prove that the pejorative "snowflake" was one of the most perfect insults ever devised. "Brought up to believe that it's very important that their voices be heard." Uh huh. Thanks trophy parents. You've really given this country quite the gift. Obviously this is purely my opinion, (just thought I'd clarify this for people who get confused between a person's opinion and fact), but I think the article is worth considering as we attempt to deal with the why behind our country's recent epidemic of estrangement, the likes of which we've never seen before..

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      Antonio50S 12 days ago

      Life without Annette

      I don't agree with a lot of views on here, but I do ( Respect ) what you say. That make sense.

      I respect respectful people.

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      Life without Annette 12 days ago

      Anthony, has anybody ever told you you monopolize the conversation? Over the past two weeks, you wrote 27 out of the 47 comments posted, and most were very long comments. It continues at a high rate from the day you first posted to this article.

      Obviously the host of this page has no problem allowing this, and I'm certainly not advocating for you to be censored. But from one human being to another, I'm just saying you tend to suck the air out of the room.

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      Antonio5OS 12 days ago

      Also would like to say, no matter how well parents do there job, a lot of kids have no respect for there parents at all. ( that don't sound like equal respect to me )

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      Antonio50 12 days ago

      2 Timothy 3:1-5 NIV

      I don't think anyone can argue about the accuracy of these verses.

      Its your lives, you can live it how you wish.

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      NarcFree 13 days ago

      Idaho Dad,

      Best comments ever. Agree with all of it, would just add one thing to your #5 respect related. If you want respect, act respectable. Applies to any kind of relationship or friendship, not only parental. Every bully refuses to admit that respect is earned. They prefer to demand it. They feel entitled to it. And if you dare disagree, they'll wave Bible in the air and quote a line that appears to justify their demands. Being a parent is a huge responsibility, not an entitlement to respect. And not a slave ownership right. Abusive parents just don't get it. They would rather quote the Bible til they're blue in their faces, than take a closer look at their own behavior.

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      Antonio50S 2 weeks ago

      To Monmmo

      Free advice.

      I am no Counselor. But going by all the things you mentioned, there's a hell of a lot of negativity going on in your life.

      Personality speaking I would ( get rid ) of anything or anyone out of my life that's not contributing to my faith and happiness.

      Why would you want all that in your life ???

      It also sounds Like your ( part of the problem ) as well by the way your rehearsing the past.

      Get rid of all negativity out your life. Its better to live alone, than to be surrounded by all that.

      Just reading your comments are soul draining.

      Take the hint.

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      Antonio50S 2 weeks ago

      Debbie

      I don't think you need to do anything about your daughter.

      You have already done your job. And a good one by the sounds of it.

      Love is not just about hanging on to something or someone in a possessive way, its also about loving them enough to let them go, and letting them be themselves as well.

      If we are looking for complete loyalty from any individual or human being, we will be disappointed. love gose beyond that.

      Even Jesus disciples all turned there blacks on him at one point, as he knew they would, but he also knew there was a higher purpose and meaning to life.

      Nobody can tell another person how to live, but I do believe that any real life, happiness, purpose, and meaning, can only be found in that name of "Jesus" himself.

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      Debbie 2 weeks ago

      I feel I have gone above and beyond When it comes to my daughter… I have received so many thank you cards from her over the years saying mom I don’t really know what I do without you… You were always there for me and you’re always my voice of reason… Yet over the simplest things she’ll just disregard me and I won’t hear from her for months… What do I do

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      2 weeks ago

      Hi Kim, thank you for writing this article. I was the kid of a dysfunctional family and I walked away from it to have my own proper liefe.I’ve been living for nearly five years in another country and when I met someone they nearly always ask me: Do you go back on holidays to see your family? It still makes me feel uncomfortable to answer the question. No, I have not and my “family” have never made an effort to come and see me. I believe I need to do some therapy to feel better about it. Thank you again. Best, J

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      Mmommo 2 weeks ago

      Thanks for listening I really appreciate it. I had a therapist a while ago say I was abandoned by both parents one involuntarily...

      My husband is somewhat of a saint now.

      He sorta allows kids to disrespect me by saying he doesn't see it. I say ultimately it hurts them also even tho my husband is wants to see me hurt. His family hates women (misogyny). His dad cheated and drank and his mom stayed, she was uneducated and they were poor. Nowadays I just fight my husbands stinking thinking most the time and we go to church.

      And we are involved in church activities.

      My dad also mostly loOked the other way with us kids. "friends" of my parents say we were "never gonna accept another mother " not sure where they got that excuse cause I was excited to get a new mom/friend. My real sister and I stopped talking when my dad died 3 years ago because she started to kiss up to my mom and half sister and tried to act like I was the problem (my real sister very jealous of me my whole life but no one ever protected me from her abuse) now as long as we fight it takes the focus off what my stepmom should have been doing for us which is love us and try to straighten us out, pardon the pun but among other things I have scoliosis because my mom ignored us so hard I had no self esteem to speak up about it and was so ashamed I managed to sneak out of locker room/gym as a kid to not get checked for it. Did i mention my half sister is super rich and married a nice catholic boy?

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      Antonio50S 2 weeks ago

      To Mmommo

      You said I believe I must forgive her, though I mostly stay away because of the pain.

      ( All forgiveness is self forgiveness )

      ( The main) purpose of forgiving is not for the benefit of the other person, but for ourselves. If it's us that's been hurt by the actions of others, then it's us who needs to forgive ourselves, for our own healing process. Otherwise we think we did something wrong. Just like trying to make your step mom love you more, by winning her acceptance, when really it should have been the other way round.

      We can tell the other person that we forgive them if we wish, but I don't think it will make any difference to the other person, Unless they seen there own errors, and if they did, they would be making genuine apologies to you, but in either case, it's you that's been hurt by what they did. So any forgiveness is for your own health and wellbeing, and healing process.

      Plus it don't sound like your dad's wife is likely to change anytime soon, maybe never.

      As you said, there was nothing you could do to make your dad's wife like or love you.

      It's a sad situation when children are trying to win the love and affection of a stranger, a non biological mother.

      Personally, I could never do what your dad did. If I met a woman, and she did not take to my Kids, ( I would show her the door ) The kids are part of the package, if there was ever a time when the kids needed a bit of stability in there lives, it was when your mother died, and it was the duty of your father to ( make sure ) that the children came first, and that any woman he meets accepts his children Just as much as they accept him, maybe even more so knowing how distraught the kids were after the death of there mom.

      The worst and most evil things a person can do to us, is all the more reason why we "NEED" to forgive ( OURSELVES ) first, then the other person, though it may not make any difference to them. But we need to understand the benefits and purposes to forgiveness and ( why it's so important ) that maybe why it's still painful when you see her. But when you can genuinely forgive yourself & move on, that will be evidence, & may even cause the other person to wonder what prompted the change ? And may even help them look at themselves. But if not, at least you are free now.

      ( Just a few benefits of forgiving ? )

      It's necessary for our own growth and happiness.

      When we hold onto all that pain, hurt, anger, caused by others, it harms us far more than the offender. Therefore need to forgive ourselves.

      Forgiveness frees us to live in the present & stops us reliving the past.

      By truly learning to forgive ( Yourself ) you regain your own personal power again. Which at the moment, your step mom still has the power.

      Forgiving yourself brings you back to good health again, especially "mental health"

      And when you can truly forgive yourself, you start to see all the positives about life.

      Something you may want to look up on you tube. ( DR CHARLES STANLEY "Anger and Forgiveness" ) "In Touch Ministries" Everybody should here this, even if they choose to disregard the spiritual side to it.

      Regarding your husband cheating ? A question to ask. If your dad kept on cheating on your mom, and your mom continued to tolerate it, would you have more, or less, respect for your mom ? Just wondering what goes on in the minds of children when they see these things going on ?

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      Paula 2 weeks ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

      Mmommo.....First of all, you need to correct your verbiage. The female child of your Dad and stepmother is NOT your "step-sister." She is your biological HALF-sister, big difference. A step-sibling is a child that a step-parent had of a former relationship before marrying your Dad...no blood relation to you at all.

      Your sad situation is very common. Personally, I always blame the biological parent when their new mate does not accept their kids or treats them poorly! It is the duty and responsibility of a Bio parent to be certain anyone they bring into their life, can and WILL be loving, accepting and fair to his children. If he/she cannot be or simply causes grief and sadness in the children, they need to be GONE. Our first and foremost position in life as parents is to love, protect, & defend our kids, especially when they are so young and have suffered the tragedy of losing a parent.

      Rather than blame anyone for past issues, be kind to yourself and proud that you rose above the obstacles. Being the best parent you can be is all you need to be concerned with. I seriously wonder why you remain with a husband who "cheats a lot" and poisons your kids against you. You deserve much better than this. You deserve to be loved, cherished and respected. It seems you have fallen into a trap of feeling as though you must accept sub-human treatment and have no recourse but to deal with it. I can only tell you that you DO have choices and CAN improve your situation. I hope one day your eyes are opened. I hope you find the courage and self-respect to act on your own behalf. No one can do this for you. What you cope with currently is no way to live. I wish you better days.

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      Mmommo 2 weeks ago

      Mostly, I know the problem is mostly myself. I grumbled against my own parents, and now mine are grumbling against me. (BTW, my original mom died of breast cancer at age 32.). I also have a husband who cheats. Like a lot and blamed me for it. We are better now (I didn't marry well, my parents really didn't care I don't think). So with my husband who tells our kids "mom's crazy" you wonder where they feel entitled to ignore me. But I know God sees. I also think MOST OF US have abandonment issues. Mostly, just try to keep my side of the street clean.

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      Mmommo 2 weeks ago

      I heard recently that "unforgiving is doing the devil's work."

      So when my kids dis me and ignore me (when I have stayed home with them, gave them the best educated guess as a parent I could give, watched who they hung out with, no drugs, not spoiled (well ok sorta) and I think my kids will be ok ultimately BUT I feel like it is society that tells our kids take the easy way out and place all BLAME on your parents (blame is a game in my book, example "Itonya" movie where she blamed it all on bad parenting....its hollywood makes another buck!) but I feel like its epidemic that the parents are the ones to take the blame THAT WAY the kids can be "happy" with everyone else in their lives, friends, employers, etc., if you can attack the parents or any certain person or group, it keeps your focus on other stuff, like its just letting of the steam in a free zone.

      Like life is too stressful to not just let the anger drop at the parents' feet.

      My mom died when I was 9. She left 4 kids behind. She was a nurse and dad was a fireman. Our family died that day. My dad remarried with the ADVICE of "friends" within a year. Our new mom hated us from day 1. I could feel it. There was nothing we could do to make her like or love us. They had a kid together and that kid grew up perfectly with a perfect ending so far. The rest of us original kids are a mess. And my parents act like they did nothing wrong and don't blame themselves for anything. They act like we all got the same treatment. My brother who was the oldest (age 12 when she died) is now homeless at age 57. Now I have given all of myself emotionally to my children, I have made mistakes (nothing major) and I would hope they could over look it, and my stepmom, I try to forgive her and the abuse continues where she brags about and ONLY cares about my stepsister ultimately, but I believe I must forgive her though I mostly stay away because it is painful for me and I don't want to PRETEND that she loves us anymore. But now onto of all. that, my own three kids, hate me? for what? I just really feel like its the trendy thing to do nowadays, it all started in high school with my kids' friends "whispering to my daughter in front of me, etc." like BAD IS THE NEW GOOD, so be mean to your parents because its COOL. Well, I would think that its a no-brainer to honor your parents, and one might feel some shame in not honoring them, but today's kids? Maybe there's no soul left in any of them. There are some families at church, with kids who go to church with them and when we say hello, the kids look straight into my eyes and do not run away and stay by their parents and don't look down. And you know what, that whole situation sends my thoughts straight to God, that there is a God, that there is a way, that its still possible and its just so refreshing and I so appreciate families like that. No sure if anyone saw the movie "ladybird" but the gal at the end of the movie, after all she wanted was to be on her own in a big city far away, after her catholic upbringing (that wasn't bad) that when the loneliness set in...well, she went to church,.....and called her mom to say "thanks." My daughter saw it and recommended it (maybe I get a gold star that she liked it, good taste by her, and a little proof maybe I'm doing something right. My kids are all drug free and one is nearly a male nurse at age 27 and my oldest age 29 is graduating with a BS in computer engineering and is in IEEE (honor society). My youngest, not in school, but 2 outa 3 ain't bad, she's a waitress at a swanky/popular restaurant. I'm not complaining but I just, well, parenting is a big issue for me and I know not to be a doormat.....the thought of them never coming around, being estranged, seems epidemic and I don't care to be afflicted by it and praying it won't come to my doorstep.

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      Antonio50S 2 weeks ago

      To Sherry. P. S. Again

      I hope I never came over as being judgemental myself. You may even be right in what you are saying ? But that depends on the persons own personal experience of abuse & how it effected them.

      When Kim mentioned dysfunction combined with abuse, I personally assume she's referring to the worst forms of abuses going on ? Only Kim knows what went on, nobody is going to disclose details of what went on. Either you know something that others don't Sherry ? Or maybe people like myself are to gullible by understanding the word abuse in the worst sense of the word ? Even if it's not the worst kind of abuse ? It can feel like it is depending on the personality and psychological make up of the individual.

      Either way it is clear that whatever went on, it effected people like Kim to the point of getting help.

      If Kims article is written out of the pain of growing up as you say, then you have to give her the benefit of the doubt. Give her some credit. Don't belittle her own experiences. ( Nobody other than the individual knows what went on, or how it effected the person )

      It all comes over as Judging. There's enough references in the N/Testament about not making Judgements.

      Any faith Kim chooses to have or not have, has to come from a personal choice & not forced on them because of there own experiences.

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      Antonio50S 2 weeks ago

      To Sherry. P. S.

      Why would any child want to meet halfway with a parent that abused them ? The only time that may be possible is if the parents acknowledge there own past behaviours, but it's not really down to the person who experienced any abuses to want to meet halfway. Plus Kim has her own life as well.

      There's nothing wrong in protecting yourself and your own kids by creating distance with parents that abused there own children.

      God does not condemn that, but he does condemn parents who abuses there children, ( which is even worse )

      Pairents that dose that is making it hard for the children to honour and respect them. But under the circumstances, I think Kim has done really well.

      The reason I am saying this Sherry, is because if you don't understand these things it can open up the door to more abuses again.

      Just taking a Guess now, I don't think Kims Pairents are devout Christians either, so why would all this meeting halfway and reconciliations apply to people that don't even have that faith ?

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      Antonio50S 2 weeks ago

      To Sherry

      Since when did having a degree in Psychology make any difference to a persons own experience ?

      Kim maybe a little abrupt and to the point on things, due to her own experiences, what do you expect ?

      Why should she even have a faith because of them experiences ? A lot of people would reject the idea of a God existing because of experiences like that, ( but as it happens Kim "is not an atheist ) She's already started that.

      ( Give her some credit ) Kim don't come over as being bitter at all.

      ( What does comes over loud and clear Sherry is your Judgemental attitudes, and not respecting Kims own personal Experiences )

      ( One big Question ) to ask yourself Sherry. How do you know how good or how bad a person is doing in there personal life ??? Other than how an article "appears" to be written. ( Only the individual knows that ) let alone making Judgements on them.

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      Sherry 2 weeks ago

      Do you have a degree in psychology or parenting? My guess is no because it appears that your article is written out of the pain from you growing up in a dysfunctional family, as is posted. I grew up in an extremely dysfunctional family, abusive Father, but my Mother held our family together. Through all of the hard times she was always there. Instead of becoming bitter, I turned it all around as I grew into becoming a positive person, and a devout Christian. When I had children, my mother didn't always agree on how to raise my children, but I listened to her advice and treated her with respect. I didn't "divorce" her. I am now 67, a mother and grandmother, and I can tell you that wisdom comes with age. I had a wonderful mother, who I lost much too soon. I wish that you could have known here because she could probably have taught you how to be more gentle, forgiving and caring. Divorcing your Mother is just wrong...God even condemns those who do so which you can find in several Bible verses.Try reading these:

      https://www.openbible.info/topics/mothers.

      I pray that your heart will heal, and you will find a way to sit down and talk with your mother about how you feel. I'm sure that there's a halfway point where the two of you could meet and agree. You are still young, and have a long way to go. Please take advice from those who have been there...you do not have all the answers. We mothers aren't presented a set of rules on raising a child when they are born. The Bible is the best guide. We just have to love them and raise them the best way we can...with advice from others. Perhaps some of your mother's advice is right...and you're wrong...did that cross your mind? Love your children and respect them...and do the same with your mother.

      May God bless you and yours.

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      Antonio50S 2 weeks ago

      Andrea Brimm

      Your comments don't make any sense.

      It's like someone running you over with a vehicle, then turning round and say, thank you for not killing me. Kim already explained her own experiences.

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      Elly The Autistic 2 weeks ago

      To Andrea Brimm:

      Really? An infant is born helpless (in case you DIDN'T 'get' the memo). And you believe that your child should 'thank you' for being alive? Your child should 'thank you' for 'you' NOT letting IT (your child) DIE? WTF? Are you for real?

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      Paula 2 weeks ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

      andrea....Dear sad and pitiful lady....try some deep breathing, perhaps a few stretching exercises and a peaceful walk in the park. You sound angry, bitter and extremely judgmental, which is irrational when you know absolutely nothing about the person you chose to spew hate toward.

      Take it easy girl. Many many people have varied experiences in life, some quite disastrous. These things must be dealt with in the ways each person finds is beneficial to them. It seems rather clear you've had a very bad experience as a parent. Rather than point your finger at others, just work out your own issues. You'll find that to be more helpful. Until then...try a little empathy, kindness and understanding. Or don't and just remain bitter & hateful....whatever floats your boat.

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      andrea brimm 2 weeks ago

      you are a selfish immature woman who apparently does not realize that your mother fed and cared for you in infancy, basically seeing that you did not die. You like many of your generation are ME ME ME with no interest in respect for what your parents did for you.

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      Karen C 3 weeks ago

      I will tell you that my ex-husband was the reason. Why do I know this? Why do I blame him? Because of how he treated me in our marriage and how the treatment was worse and compounded, after our divorce, when he dated and married an awful woman. I tried to "be friendly" with her because I wanted my children to not hurt anymore. When she saw my ex and I getting along, it bothered her. And no, there was nothing for her to be upset about. I was happy they seemed happy and that was fine. But the whole issue with him was always about money. When he married me, he thought I came from money. When he married his second wife, she made a good amount of money, when he didn't want to pay child support, he quit his good paying job for a much less paying job hoping not to pay me child support. Then it came, the phone call from him to me stating he'd get me back and hurt me the only way he knew how, through the kids. It took about two years after I had gotten an increase from $240 a month, to $536 a month, for him to talk both my kids into moving in with him and her, by promising cars, trips, and clothing. I was devastated. Cried all the time. And then I got the letter I was being sued for child support. I made $15 an hour and was being sued for $1006 a month for support to him. I sold my house, car and furniture to pay attorney fees. I moved with the man I was dating at that point to another state. I felt lost, betrayed, unloved, and like I was nothing. I had nothing. After 3 years, I moved back to the same state my kids were in and tried to mend the relationship. They were obviously angry for me leaving, but I was lost and hurt. I was getting it from all sides. My son really never forgave me and has a hard time talking to me. He's 33, my daughter is a year older. In all of this, guess who gets the most attention? Their sneaky manipulating father. I've given my children everything I've ever had. I done things to give them more but they don't see it. It was the dollar they wanted, just like him, and I hate that good people get hurt while bad people live a better happier life.

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      Antonio50S 3 weeks ago

      To Debra P.s.

      Probably none of my business, but don't be to hard on yourself. You sound like a really good mom, but it's a fact, some kids just don't care if what they do is effecting there parents or not. If your son really wanted to go and see you, he would do it anyway regardless of your daughter-in-law.

      Seen some of these alcoholic children go in and out of Detox for years & eventually end up dead with no regards to there parents at all. I know it's a disease or so they say, but many times when they were sober and doing well, suddenly just started drinking again, I know for a fact some of them times they could have resisted slipping back into drink again, I maybe wrong ? But it seemed to me that they did not care enough about how that would have effected there parents, and just did it anyway.

      I am no judge, but just going by what I seen.

      I really don't appreciate people like adahoDad just suddenly visit a thread after some time, then make accusations or implications that all parents are abusive because of ( there own experience ), even implying that parents are abusing there kids just for being concerned about them, Yes people like adahoDad may have given themselves willingly out of love to look after a parent, but that's what most genuine parents do there ( whole lives ) for there kids, ( out of choices ) beyond the ages of 18 as well when they become adults, then they get accused of not letting the kids go, while at the same time accepting all the financial assistances from there parents like in the case of BiLL757 own children did.

      ( Hypocrisy works both ways ) only with genuine parents what they do is out of natural love for there kids.

      It would interesting to see how some of these very people who have there own happy families now react when there own children start doing the same things. If they don't end up doing the same things, it won't be because the parents did anything right, it will be because of there own kids ( choices ). Regardless of how they were raised. Some of the choices these kids make can end up shocking you.

      How many times have we heard on the news about some people committing crimes and the parents saying I don't understand it, my son was such a lovely boy. Yeah Right. As if they don't have a choice to go the wrong way.

      Don't be so hard on yourself Debra.

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      Antonio50S 3 weeks ago

      To Debra

      Regarding your alcoholic son, and not seeing your grandson, "don't" live your life in pain. ( Accept the things you cannot change ) and do something about the things you can. No matter what, whether you see them or not, ( Just love them ) nobody can take that away from you, it's also a great healing power in the sense that you are loving them without expecting anything in return.

      I have literally seen grandparents raise there grandchildren because the parents could not deal with there own kids, them grandparents did a great job, they had more patience with the grandchildren because of there own experiences, yet when them grandchildren grew up, they went and lived there own lives, with the parents of them grandchildren complaining that the grandchildren don't go to see the grandparents who raised them.

      Just love them without expecting anything back in return. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

      As the Scriptures says. With God, all things are possible. Meaning the things that seems to be lost forever, are not really, He can snap his finger's and put all things right in one go if he wanted to, he can ever reverse time, go back in time and put all things right, you think a God who created our Universe with all the laws of nature including ( time ) cannot do that if he wanted to ???

      He can do, but not without effecting our own freedom of choices like what your son & granddaughter did. But he has far better ways of dealing with human sufferings, it's a little difficult trying to explain these things, but that's were trust comes in to it.

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      Antonio50S 3 weeks ago

      No Clue Dad

      Your not living up to your name.

      I absolutely one million% think you Got it Right.

      If you do it that way, you can actually Honor & respect them as parents as well with all there faults, even the deliberate ones, because that way, you know when your ears have had enough, you can just go back to your own home.

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      No Clue Dad 3 weeks ago

      Elizabeth C--very well said, well reasoned, and I completely agree with you. I note you said at the end that you chose to "limit" contact. I think that is totally appropriate. And I think any adult child that feels smothered by the parent or parents should indeed limit contact. It's your life, not your parents'. You need to be who you are, not who your parents want you to be. I would like to hope more adult children that seek to assert greater control of their relationships with their parents would follow your lead--minimize contact, but not go to the unnecessary (most of the time) extreme of "no contact". I see a big difference between limited contact and no contact. Limited contact has the look and feel of a loving, respectful relationship that is based on appropriate, mutual boundaries, whereas, in my view, no contact is an extreme, angry act that seems just as painful as the perceived wrongful actions that led to the no contact

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      Antonio50S 3 weeks ago

      To Elizabeth

      I am going back on myself again in commenting back.

      If 2 people are in a boxing ring, the chances are somebody is going to get killed.

      Though communication is the key to resolving misunderstandings, both people need to be willing to communicate. But if not, then distance is the best option. In your case, distance and space will likely resolve the situation better that communication.

      In case a lot of millennials ( younger ones ) have never heard this before, ( absence makes the heart grow fonder ) meaning let your mom miss you. Don't go round for a while, and she may just appreciate seeing you instead of trying to change you.

      She's definitely got an issue going on in her head. I don't think them 4 loves will help in that situation.

      To Mmommo

      I think you said there were some things you wanted to try and nail down in respects to maybe them beliefs of yours. ( Will try my best ) but think i may know some of them questions your referring to ? It's likely the unorthodox questions were people look at you all baffled as to why you even struggle with them. ( I know the feeling walking all alone with them thoughts )

      Will do my best, but have to say if other people cut in and make any critical or judgemental remarks or comments, ( I will ignore them ) my philosophy is, if they don't have anything good or constructive to add, then they should stay quiet and listen, all the answer's may not be there at once, but you learn more by listening. Some of the best lessons in life come over a period of time, even years. Be patient. Life is full of lessons.

      But if I here any general negative comments from anyone directed at me, that really is no good for anyone, then going to blank them out and ignore it.

      The only way I can give a reply is after I have really thought about it. So in future, it may take some time before getting back. Also going to be selective about who I respond back to, but I am ok with people like you Elizabeth & Mmommo. But not going to get into debates with other's that just make attacks and go round in circles.

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      ElizabethCa 3 weeks ago

      The point I wanted to make with the four loves - someone can, in a way, love someone else, and still be toxic to them. It's sad, but true. I know my mother would say the same as many parents in such a situation: that she poured everything she could into me and she has no idea why I'm so cold and distant with her.

      The truth was, she poured time and money into making me into who she wanted me to be. But she's proved to be completely unwilling to accept me making any other choices. She sees anything I choose, as an adult, that she doesn't approve of, as me choosing to reject her as a person. She'll try to "talk it over" with me, but refuse to accept any answer as the truth that isn't me admitting I was being stupid and rebellious and should have listened to her. And bring it up again, and again, and again, and again, refusing to change the subject or respect any requests to talk about something else - and be completely confused when I get upset with her.

      I realized I have three choices with her:

      - Do what she says all the time

      - Be prepared for most of our interactions to center around why I'm not doing what she says

      - Limit contact with her.

      I chose to limit contact. She still says she has no idea why. She says she just wants me to sit down and explain everything to her, despite the fact that I've done that repeatedly. If she doesn't see any problem with what she's doing, then I must be hiding the real reason from her, and if I'd just tell her the real reason everything would be ok.

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      Snarkles 3 weeks ago

      Or today's kids are too wrapped up in themselves to give a hoot about their parents.

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      Antonio50S 3 weeks ago

      Hello to Everyone.

      Making this my last post now. I hope some of the things I mentioned ( in my own post ) have been helpful to some.

      Whichever way we choose to approach things, all the answer's are out there, but no individual has all the answers for everybody.

      There are books out there that covers all the subjects mentioned on this thread, including books like ( what do parents owe there children ? And what do children owe there parents ? )

      Personally speaking, and hope this don't come out wrong, all our answers are found in that book we call the Bible. It's the oldest book on earth, and cover's every subject. Some of the best answers and solutions don't come easy and requires some effort, but it's the effort that makes it all worth while.

      Will quote one last verse. It's taken from the book of proverbs, Old Testament. ( Proverbs chapter 2 verses 4 and 5 ) "If you look for it as for silver, and search for it as for hidden treasures, you will find the knowledge of God"

      No human being has all the answers for everybody.

      As I said, making this my last post now. May post something in the future ??? Not sure yet, But if I do, it won't be with the intention of having dialog with any individual, but in the form of a statement, and people can take what they want from it, like all the rest do. To many views and opinions are no good for anybody. It just means human beings don't really have ( permanent ) solutions to the problems facing society.

      For me, whether I live or die, or whether God sees me fit to be in that new Kingdom Jesus spoke about ? Which only the Almighty knows ? Either way, Going to put my trust in that.

      All the best to everyone.

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      Antonio50S 3 weeks ago

      To Elizabeth

      I did look up that ( C.S. Lewis, 4 loves ) really good. It's not like the English basic word for love. Really interesting. Everybody in society should be aware of these things. Since it's more than just about love, but more of an approach to life.

      Really good.

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      Debra 3 weeks ago

      BS. All I ever did was love my alcoholic estranged son who not only constantly disrespected me but also his brother. Estranged son also married a disrespectful, spoiled wife who alienated me from my own grandsons. Parents who abuse their kids are a different story as far as alienating their parents. However, a lot of parents just like myself have no indication of why kids abandoned parents, siblings and a whole side of a family.. Grandchildren have a right to know loving grandparents. To say that parents do not listen or acknowledge why kids alienate is an insult to parents.

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      Antonio50S 3 weeks ago

      Apologies to everyone.

      I said I was not going to post anything further after that last post. ( And really trying to keep of all these subjects now ) unless people can appreciate and understand the spiritual side, and purpose to honouring and respespecting parents which most in society don't.

      But will try and give a reply to "adahoDad" question as best as I can, but after that, It's up to each individual how they choose to live & what to believe in.

      These are the questions ??? And a lot of the answers are covered in books like, ( how much do children owe there parents & how much do parents owe there children ) ?

      How much do children really owe there parents ?

      A lot of what "adahoDad" said, in technical terms is true. Children never asked to be born into this world, and really don't owe what some parents think they owe them. It's not for any parents to say I brought you into this world & therfore you owe me, that is not a healthy way to be in any relationship. Like any other relationship, it has to be a mutual & willing relationship on both sides, there has to be mutual respect both ways, otherwise parents can end up trying to control there children, and end up giving the children problems. But adult children also need to realise there own expectations of there parents are also unrealistic & distorted as well. A lot of adult children without realising it, are also guilty of some of the same things they accuse the parents of.

      ( Example ) and this is a very common problem in the world, it comes up a lot in courts, and these situations are also mentione in the Bible as well. When parents of large families die, a lot of the adult children argue & squabble about what's owed to them. ( were dose all this come from ) and why do them "adult" children feel that they are owed anything ??? Good questions to ask ourselves. Thats only one example, if we think about it, personally, we can think of others as well.

      How much do parents owe there children ?

      In a lot of cases when a child reaches say the age of 18, And courts will back this up as well. Parents are really not under any obligation to provide any further assistance to there children, unless its by mutual agreement. But because of natural instincts of parents to cling onto there children which is only ( Natural ), a lot of parents will continue to keep on assisting there children ( out of choice ), for which no parents should ever use against there children by saying ( how much ) they did for them. If parents choose to assist there children after the ages of 18, then thats there choice. No guilt trips. The best gift and inheritance you can give your children is the ability to fend & look after themselves, including spirituality issues which really a lot of people don't want. Even in the animal world, some animals force there children out the home so they can fend & look after themselves.

      Regarding honouring our farther and mother, and respecting them, them are for different reasons altogether. Mainly spiritual reasons. A bit like respecting the current leader of a country. You may not agree with them, but you respect there rank, position & title, but if we cannot do that with them, it's unlikely we will respect our parents either.

      Just like we may not agree with the views of a leader leading a country, while respecting there position, the same principles apply to honouring & Respecting our farther & mother. ( And not because of them doing there job well, without faults & errors ) as we expect of our parents.

      Though a lot of people may choose not to believe in a God, the principles of honouring our father and mother comes from the commandments of the bible. There's no religious institution or church thats infallible, they all have there issues and struggles, just like parents do, but behind most organisations & systems there are ethics & rules to keep to, and the reasons they are there to begin with is because we fallible, by nature & because they provide some structure and order.

      Though we may not be under the commandments anymore, the principles behind honouring our parents are always applicable, regardless of how bad our parents were. Another reason for honouring them is because all life belongs to the Almighty regardless of whether we choose to believe in him or not. He set the pattern. And honouring them is the only command associated with long life, be it in this life or the next.

      To adahoDad. After thinking about your question, I now realise you ment well.

      The first thing you mentioned is what's remembered the most, especially the way you came out with it. Never mention to offend you or anyone, but that's what it means to be human, ( And hope everyone can keep that in mind when dealing with there own parents as well )

      Plus nearly everything I posted on here, I tried to remain neutral and see both the parents and adult childs side to things. But in the end, ( I am no counselor ) and could do without some of the comments people come out with.

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      Antonio50S 3 weeks ago

      To Kim Bryan

      Just want to say. Made a decision that I won't be posting anything else on your thread anymore.

      I think I have said enough anyway, people can take what they want from it, just like they do with other peoples comments.

      Plus its a bit difficult trying to help out a bit, while individuals are making attacks from the side, and your allowing that to happen by posting there negative attacks on other people's parents, and on myself as well.

      Like Bill said, any estrangement issues are basically a spiritual problem, ( and if they cannot be dealt with in a spiritual sense ) without others cutting in by trying to destroy other people's efforts & by you allowing that to happen as well, then it's a total waist of time me posting anything.

      But as i mentioned, already said enough anyway.

      All the best to everyone.

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      Antonio50S 3 weeks ago

      To Kim Bryan

      Noticed you posted my last couple of posts to yourself, but still left our my response to ( adahoDad )

      Anyway, you know i think he's a creep. I don't think I am going against any beliefs of mine by saying that, and like Bill said, labels sometimes are good to get your point over.

      adahoDad read so many things related to the scriptures, yet disregarded all of them by making personal attacks on me and others, then pretending to be all respectul & self righteous.

      I will say what needs to be said to anybody ( that's how it is kim ) if you don't post my reply back, no matter how truthful it is, you won't be getting anymore comments from me.

      In the meantime I still think adahoDad is a ( creep ) Not going to play around with words with people like him. ( Not going to Happen ) not now, not ever.

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      Antonio50S 3 weeks ago

      To Kim Bryan. P.s.

      Just like to say also, though it took a while to figure out Bill757, he was right in a lot of things he came out with.

      Though he was referring to me at the time, I appreciate that quote of his now, ( you can't handle truth ) bill was right, that's why no matter what you say, some people will only here what they want to here, and come back making insults against other people's parents.

      If you don't mind me saying kim, you was lucky to have had Bill757 on your thread to begin with. But if you feel better about yourself posting people's shallow posts like "adahoDad" then go ahead, knock yourself out.

      Everywhere I go, people know me to speak my mind, but on your thread, I was trying to use my words more carefully because of some people going through genuine abuses. But I will never make apologies for who I am, or speaking the truth about people like adahoDad. His attitudes has absolutely nothing to do with any of his so called abuse he went through. He gave me the creeps pretending to be all respectful while insulting others at the same time.

      I don't make any apologies for who I am. And real life is not about raising your kids in a perfect environment & coming out with insult remarks like ( if the parents did there job properly ) as if such thing exists.

      That is S**t talk excuse the expression.

      Sorry kim, but that's screwed up thinking which ends up screwing the kids up even further, and your supporting that as well.

      The reasons you yourself had some insult remarks was because you did not play with your words either.

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      Antonio50S 3 weeks ago

      To Kim Bryan

      I did wonder whether you would have sent that last reply.

      I think it maybe just as well you never, since I don't agree with a lot of the attitudes of some of these "so called" millennials.

      Despite what some of them have gone through, that attitude is a separate issue, seen that attitude over the years in others who "never" went through any abuses, so they cannot blame it on abuses.

      If you want to support some of there attitudes by posting there insults onto genuine parents Kim, then thats your choice.

      If I really wanted to get my point across to some of these adult children with them types of attitudes, I can use my own Website & Facebook. But I don't think some of them are worth it.

      I was in the Middle of giving a reply to Elizabeth until I saw that post insulting parents who are genuinely concerned about there kids, and also wondered why you would want to post them type of post insulting them parents ???

      I don't believe that last person was looking for genuine answers at all, but just visited your thread to insult others, and you posted it as well.

      If you kim think communications between parents and children should run all nice and smoothly, you should see some of the New attitudes in kids which parents are struggling do deal with as the kids are growing up, picking up all them attitudes from outside influences.

      I say what needs to be said to my own kids, and they respect me for that. You really think I am going to take nonsense from people like that last post ?

      You can post what you like kim, but every time I see people like you supporting them attitudes in that last persons post, it's one more reason for me to not want to post anything on your thread. Plus it would save me a lot of trouble trying to give replies to that last persons question when all the answers were already given.

      Theres a verse in the Bible which says, rebuke a wise person, and he will thank you for it, but rebuke a fool, and he will hate you for pointing things out.

      Your own responses kim will also say a lot about you.

      I really don't care to much about people with attitudes either way.

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      IdahoDad 3 weeks ago

      Antonio,

      The first question was used as a rhetorical device. It not only didn't deserve an answer, it didn't beg one.

      There is nothing I said that was insulting. If you are offended that I find it ridiculous when parents refuse to acknowledge their own role and responsibility in managing an adult relationship, may be it is you who needs to continue to soul search? Your entire attitude, like MrBills, is condescending. My parents wasting my time with me? You don't even know me, what I've gone through, the abuse my parents put me through, and what I have endured from "well-meaning" people such as yourself who encourage me to "turn the other cheek". I notice a lot of adult children genuinely struggling with the decision of whether or not to cut contact with their parents. But if those parents are anything like you with your attitude, I hope those kids take healthy steps to separate themselves. You can have the last word, I have better things to do than argue with the wall.

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      Antonio50S 3 weeks ago

      adahoDad. P. S.

      I haven't noticed any parent on here making any demands from there children. If you took time out to look after your dad ( willingly ) while he was dying, then thats a good thing, but the instincts of parents towards there own children is far stronger than the ones we have towards our own parents.

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      Antonio50S 3 weeks ago

      adalhoDad

      I know you mean well, but your whole approach and attitude to life is ( all wrong )

      Yes, children may have come into this world through no choice of there own, just like myself as well, But your questions sounds like they are coming from anger.

      Its very difficult engaging with angry people, because no matter what you say, they only here what they want to here.

      Life itself will teach you more than anything I or anyone else may say to you.

      I remember me and all my friends years ago, how we spent so much time being angry with our parents because of what we thought they should have been, but now we just see them as fallible human beings who happen to be our parents , you think your kids won't have issues with you as you make mistakes along the way ? Think again.

      Its not the faults and mistakes of parents that makes them worthy of respect, ( its the fact that you have life in the first place ) honouring your father and mother was not on the condition of them getting everything right either.

      Every fault and mistake your parents ever made is really just an opportunity for you to overlook & see them for what they are, ( fallible people ) just like you & me.

      No matter how much you think your experiences effected you, life is a privilege.

      No matter what you come out with, there's people who's gone through 100 worse than you. Some times it's not always obvious when you talk to them because of there happy attitude and approach to life, but maybe it's because of that attitude in them to begin with why they overcame what they went through.

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      Antonio50S 3 weeks ago

      adalhoDad

      I don't remember reading any comments from any estranged parents that sounded like ridiculous excuses & rationalisation.

      I think maybe you are the only one who keeps coming back to this page, but no for the right reasons.

      Maybe you need to go away and do some "serious soul searching" as to your real motives for revisiting this page and insulting others.

      Most people spend there whole lives just getting to know themselves, let alone taking the time out like you did to insult others.

      I noticed there are a lot of good parents on here, genuinely concerned about there kids, but if them kids are anything like you with your attitude, then i think them parents are waisting there time even thinking about them.

      Realistically, you never even deserved an answer to your first question.

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      IdahoDad 3 weeks ago

      Antonio,

      I'd love to hear the reasons you think I am wrong about reason #5. You seem to be reasonable and respectful in your replies.

      Before you try to rebut my point, let me expand on it so that you have a full understanding of the idea I am trying to express.

      Children come into this world through no choice of their own. It is the parent's choice. And because of that choice, it is the parents obligation to provide for both the physical and emotional needs of the child until adulthood. ("when" somebody becomes an adult is beyond the scope of this conversation).

      If a parent does a great job this, a child is still not obligated to have a relationship with this parent. That is not love. Love is freely given.

      When I cared for my father on his deathbed, it certainly was not because I owed this to him. It was because I wanted to give of my time and myself to help him.

      It's unhealthy to approach any relationship with the idea that you are "owed something".

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      Antonio50S 3 weeks ago

      To Elizabeth

      I have not forgot about that C.S. Lewis 4 loves.

      Just in the middle of it. I am sure one of them 4 loves can be applied to that situation with your mother.

      Will get back to you on this as soon as possible.

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      Antonio50S 3 weeks ago

      IdahoDad

      Despite your reasons for coming back to this page, as you mentioned. I thought ( number 5 ) of your reasons is an interesting one.

      If you don't mind me saying, ( I think you got that the wrong way round )

      You may not see that at the moment ( since society is conditioned to thinking a certain way ) Basically what I am getting at "for now" is, life is not all about you adult kids. May explain soon.

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      IdahoDad 3 weeks ago

      Am I the only one who keeps coming back to this page to read the ridiculous excuses and rationalizations that some of these estranged parents make to justify their own bad behavior with their children?

      Some key facts that aren't sinking in with you folks:

      1. Forgiveness doesn't mean sticking around for more of the same bad behavior. 2. Breaking off a relationship with someone you no longer wish to obligate yourself to is not abuse. 3. You don't have a "right" to see your grandchildren, you have a very special privilege. You are not the parent. You do not get to decide what is best. 4. Your children are adults with their own experiences, thoughts, feelings, and moral compasses. They are not an extension of you. 5. Respect is a two way street. Children don't "owe" their parents anything no matter what you think you did for them. Want respect? Be respectful.

      When you decide to treat your children with respect as adults and start listening, you might make some progress with reconciliation.

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      Antonio50S 3 weeks ago

      To Mmommo

      I don't have all the answers, people have there own experiences, but I don't think it's good for parents to give everything to there kids, be it physically, spiritualy, or comproming your own faith for them, then be left with nothing.

      That's not good, the adult kids won't respect you for it either.

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      Antonio50S 3 weeks ago

      To Mmommo. P.s.

      Just want to add, based on my own "personal" experiences, all I can say is, there's nothing in this life as we know it thats worth loosing our life, or salvation over.

      A lot of these younger adult children will take everything of you, and leave you there for dead. That sounds like a lot of experiences people posted on here.

      I think it's obvious what the problem is now, and that is, most of these heartbroken parents who think the world of there kids will do absolutely anything for there kids, make any sacrifices for there children out of love.

      The truth is though, parents that set boundaries for young children do it out of love, and not because they are being hard on them. Even adult children are not that grown up in reality, but old enough to make decisions for there own lives, including decisions that effects the parents.

      Will quote just one verse from ( Proverbs 23:13 ) "Do not withhold discipline from a child, if you punish them with the rod, they will not die" NIV New international version.

      I think maybe most of society will have issues with words like Discipline, Punish, and Rod. ( As Bill would say ) But I like what that verse says, ( they will not die ) as a result of that.

      In the Bible there are so many verses about corrections, rebuking, disciplines, and a lot of them, if not most ? Apply to adults. If all these verses don't apply to adults & adult children, then why do we have "Police" on the streets ? Why do we have Prisons ? And why are there so many laws to govern human behaviours ?

      I think I would be right in saying that a "number" of these adult parents from dysfunctional families who truly abuse there children, are the ones that were fighting for "freedom and liberations" from our internal desires ? Well that's what they got, just look at the current ( Opioids ) crisis in the USA and how thousands each year are dying as a result of there parents fighting for that ( freedom & liberation ) But I am sure there's other reasons for that as well.

      True freedom don't come through the absence of rules, or regulations, or by giving in to our own desires, they come by mastering our own internal struggles.

      Its only normal for parents to love there kids, and want to give them the best, but getting everything is not good for you either. A lot of these parents will also make compromise after compromise, including compromising there own faith to accommodate there children, with the end result being, they will leave you for dead.

      I don't think anybody in there right minds would want that.

      There's nothing in this life thats worth loosing your own salvation over, ( not even our kids )

      Just because they are our adult children dose not mean they are anymore worthy than the adult children of others who we may think nothing of, or may even dislike in some cases.

      Our own kids are no different.

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      Antonio50S 3 weeks ago

      To Mmommo

      I thought "Bill757" & "Just Browsing" experiences were really good.

      "Just Browsing" Reminded me of good advice which I received from friends but was not listening.

      Bill757 was also right, the Older Generation forgive, The younger generation or millennials don't.

      I have noticed something about this younger generation though, and that is, A lot of them really ( don't care whether you live or die ) but don't have any trouble receiving money and things of you, as if it's somehow owned to them.

      I don't think Bill757 or people like yourself, or myself have done anything wrong to deserve any of that treatment, not even our natural mistakes. It's a generation problem.

      All I can do is give my own experience just like the rest on here. But will say, once you walked through that ( valley of shadow of death ) so many times, it changes your whole approach to life, including how we deal with ( some ) of these people who just don't care whether we live or die.

      A good friend of mine once said, if there's one thing in life you have to be selfish about, ( it's your own salvation ) I never agreed with that at the time, since I thought Jesus died in a selfless way for everyone. But now, I have changed my thinking on that 100% and without doubt, I now "totally" agree with what that friend said.

      Who decides who lives or dies other than the Almighty himself ? that's why you have to be selfish about your own salvation. That really applies to everyone if they have a faith.

      ( Just Browsing ) more or less sayed the same things, but without the faith.

      If the kids want to be in your life, then they have to shape up themselves.

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      Mmommo 3 weeks ago

      Thanks Antonio

      I like the advice to IGNORE them and earlier someone on this forum (perhaps you) gave good advice to well I forget now but something like don't be so emotional about it. I also love how you it is the CREATOR who decides how many kids we have. Sometimes I feel guilty that I made a bad decision to have so many kids and blame myself. Sure appreciate your referring to the Bible for help as well, sure appreciate your belief that that is what works, thanks for your time too. I will probably post more later this week, as I have some more specific questions and issues that I am trying to nail down.

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      Antonio50S 3 weeks ago

      To Mmommo

      Read your comment. Without talking about me, I love the way some of the older generation Jamaicans, and other cultures raised there children, a bit like my own background.

      Going by the standards of today's society, and definitions of abuse, a lot of these older Jamaicas would be accused of being abusive to there children, yet I don't think I have come across one of these adult Jamaican children yet who don't have deep respect for there parents "now". When they look back on the way they were raised, including my own upbringing, we are grateful we did not get everything we wanted.

      I was listening to one of "Billy Grahams" sermons ( the one time ) and he was saying how he, and all his family grew up in a happy family, but never realised how "poor" they were until it was pointed out to them. Billy Graham made a joke about that, by saying we were "poor" and never even knew it because of how happy they all were.

      "Patrick Swayze" Also said, the best way to screw your kids up is give them everything they want.

      I am a little annoyed hearing how MrBill gave & provided everything there children ever needed, ( which is only natural ) "but not always good" ( Just for his children to ignore him ) "As I said" I can ( Definitely ) relate to that myself.

      One thing I noticed with large dysfunctional families & talking from experience on this. You always get 1 or 2 that breaks from that dysfunction who wants a better life for there own kids, but the sad truth is, providing everything that the children want in a physical sense don't guarantee appreciation or success as the kids reach adult life, they may even dislike the parents as a result of this, which implies there is an inner need within human beings which longs to be fulfilled. ( Even "Gandhi" said in so many words, "the spiritual part of us humans beings is far more important than the physical ) take away the spiritual, what are we left with other than the physical ? Do anything long enough in a physical sense, after a while it looses all meaning.

      Will quote a footnote from the NLT new living translation study bible on "Ecclesiastes" and Solomons own experiences. "do we spend all our lives searching for meaning ? or do we acknowledge the one who "adds meaning" to all we do" ? Solomon got the answer to some of them questions the hard way, that's why its recorded in the Old Testament Bible as examples of what to avoid.

      Regarding the ones who broke away from the dysfunctional family, they are the ones who wanted something better for there own children, ( but to be realistic, the ones that never broke away from that dysfunction ) also wanted something better deep down as well, but maybe was to effected psychologically to break the cycle, but if it was all handed to them like in the case of MrBill providing everything for his kids, would them kids in that dysfunctional family be grateful & more respectful or not ???

      Regarding comments & suggestions ?

      There's a lot of verses in the book of proverbs about corrections & disciplines, words that society may not choose to use, but the principles behind them verses still work. ( They are timeless ) there's nothing in the nature of us human beings that's changed since them Proverbs were written. Take away all the modern technologies & endless new thoughts, we are basically dealing with the same old struggles common to man, as they were all them generations ago. Thats why the bible is not a book of science, but rather a book that exposes the inner thoughts, intentions, desires of the "human heart" which is the root of all the issues facing our world. ( Change the heart of man, we have a better world )

      Regarding the kids, "Don't" give them everything they want, if you know you have something of value, ( Not referring to physical things ) then make them work for it.

      Its you that should be doing the ignoring, not the kids.

      Will tell you something about my own parents. Sometimes they only had to give you a look, and you soon got your act together. Don't let the kids ignore you, it should be the other way round till they learn respect for the parents, and if they don't ? Our loyalties ultimately should go to someone far higher, and thats the very creator of our own kids & all things, ( The Almighty Himself )

      Even though we may think it's we that created our kids, by choosing to have them, the workings of the DNA, and "enzymes" which are there prevent mutations, ( were set ) in the DNA code from the very beginning of all life on our planet by the Creator himself.

      Even "Francis Crick" who received the Noble Prize for discovering the workings of the double Helix DNA, was amazed to see under microscope that there was something there directing the formation of a human being from conception. Crick was that amazed by what he saw under microscope, that he gave the credit to all this coming from out of space somewhere. Much easier to believe in an Almighty God, since we are dealing with intelligent design.

      Just for the record though. It was "Rosalind Franklin" A Jewish woman who first discovered the Workings Of The DNA, who died early from ovarian cancer. Franklin is the one who should have received the Noble prize, Not Crick who gave the credit to an unknown source.

      Don't give the kids everything they want, Make them work for it, they will appreciate & love you more for it.

      A bit like Crick, He may have Received the Noble Prize, took the credit for Franklins work, But Crick never Created life. ( Make the kids work for it )

      Its a fact, when we have to work for something, we appreciate it much more.

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      Mmommo 3 weeks ago

      Hello everyone.

      Its nearly 3 am and I have a test in the morning (Saturday) and I am up worrying about my kids.

      I especially like MrBill's comments and Antonio's comments in this thread.

      I have 3 adult children who have been growing away from me over the years, they are not lost/estranged quite yet but we are barely hanging on. My husband was abusive during our 34 year marriage. We are still married. We go to church now more than ever. Our kids got into church a little late and due to a church break up, they were not there very long, a few years each is all they got.

      My parents were abusive with me but not physically. And it has continued and gotten somewhat worse but I chose to honor them and forgive them even as their behavior continued. I have tried to tell my husband about our kids being abusive with me but he just thinks I'm crazy and so I have gotten little help from him so how can I expect the kids to be any better when even my own husband doesn't back me up. We are still a work in progress and things are getting better with my husband and I through the Word of God. I have been so good to my kids and they are acting like they just always want to ignore me mostly and are hostile towards me/they make it very apparent that their lips are sealed (they slightly talk to my husband more than me, so they like stick the knife in and twist it).

      So my parents were abusive with me (my mom died when I was 9 from cancer and left behind 4 kids) so my dad remarried within a year, and they had a kid together and that kid today has it all. the rest of us kids are a mess, one is homeless, the other 2 are alcoholic and a lot of dysfunction for all of us. My heart is breaking that I have laid down my life for my kids and this is what I get? ?? I know that this can't be good for them either (not respecting the commandment to honor parents may hurt themselves eventually). I am thankful for some insight on this discussion board and references to God. In fact I have read some downright amazing things and helpful things that now I can go to SLEEP. But would love to hear any comments or suggestions.

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      Mother of a Model 4 weeks ago

      I posted on this many months ago. Now after year and three months our daughter has reached out and told us why she has not had any contact. It is due to her spouse who has mentally and physically abused her and controlled her. Also her spouse had given her Adderall and it explains the change in the personality of her. I’m happy to say she is seeking help and we stand by her side our love is unconditional and we will never stop loving her.

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      Antonio50S 4 weeks ago

      To Elizabeth

      Will look up that C.S. Lewis. The Four Loves.

      Your mom sound like one of them female actors out of "Dallas" who JR kept having all these psychological games going on. You can never figure them out.

      If going by what you say is true, then your mom has some serious issues going on in her Head.

      Us human beings are so complicated, yet the solutions to some problems are so simple. ( meaning ) All the issues we are facing like in the case of your mom, are all coming from deep within the "Heart" or "Psyche" in Greek.

      We can never be truly be free, liberated, & at peace within ourselves while all these internal struggleas are waging war from deep within. Because obviously that's were all the issues are coming from.

      We all have our demons, but to recognize, and face them head on is half the battle. The other half of the battle is dealing with them internal struggles that holds us back.

      To know ourselves as a Greek philosopher said, is half the battle.

      Most us in life struggle with knowing ourselves, let alone think we know why the other person behaves the way they do, but its interesting that those who are always critical of other's to the point of wanting to change them, cannot be happy with themselves deep down either.

      People that know themselves, don't try to change others, because they are all to aware of there own faults. Happy people don't try to change others either. They are to busy being happy.

      I would say, you can only deal with your approach to your mom.

      If its worth it to you, see it as a challenge, work at it. But like you said in so many words, she won't let you be yourself.

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      ElizabethCa 4 weeks ago

      @Antonio50S

      Read C.S. Lewis "The Four Loves" and the character of Mrs. Fidget. It's not that people like my mother don't, in a way, love others. It's that her love is shown by trying continually to force my life into the exact pattern she thinks I should be following - a life centered on her desires for me. She wants to give me every advantage to live the life she wants for me. The problem is that's not the life I want for myself, and she sees that as a direct rejection of her.

      A lot of the problem is her idea of her behavior is just so divorced from what others see. I've watched this with my father as well. She would be standing over him in the middle of the night, when he was trying to sleep and needed to get up the next morning, telling him all the things he was doing wrong, for hours on end. Then she would later recount how she was just trying to have a polite discussion with him and work things out, and he just got angry at her for no reason. When pressed, she would say she only kept on because he was being so difficult with her and she just had to find a way to get through to him. If pressed, she would admit that maybe she should have walked away, but he was being so difficult and unwilling to listen and she loved him so much that she had to keep trying to get through to him. But at no point would she show any awareness that forcing a conversation on someone who is trying to sleep is not appropriate behavior.

      That's a very common pattern with her - downgrading her own behavior to something much more reasonable than what actually happened, or explaining how other people are just making it so she has no choice but to act in a certain way. Sometimes this involves third parties; for example telling me she's so sorry that I'm hearing so much about her marital stress (from her), but that if my father weren't so awful to her she wouldn't be forced to unload everything on me. At no point will she acknowledge that any behavior of hers may have been inappropriate.

      This is combined with a general tendency to take every single petty thing as a huge deal. We had a multi-year issue over how my clothing wasn't feminine enough, where she would bring it up EVERY SINGLE TIME she saw me how I was dressed. Changing the subject or telling her I didn't want to talk about it resulted in tears and anger and being told, how could I do this to my mother? When confronted, she just told me how she didn't understand how I dressed in such awful clothes, she didn't understand why I was being so rebellious and stubborn, and she just wanted to help me get over personal issues that were causing me to wear them. Despite me explaining repeatedly that they weren't indicative of any deeper issues than liking to be comfortable and not wanting to think too much about my outfit when getting dressed. She would reject that and press me repeatedly for the "real reason," and then say she had no idea why I was being so unreasonable I said I was done with the topic. That's just one example - every disagreement with her is like that.

      I think she loves us, in her own way, but I think she's also stuck in a mentality where she's always right, and it's not possible for someone to rationally disagree with her. And unfortunately that means her love gets expressed by constantly trying to fix me, even when I'm telling her I don't need fixing. She gets upset because in her mind she's trying to help me, and I'm just being too stubborn and irrational to accept her help.

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      Antonio50S 4 weeks ago

      To Bill757

      I do understand what you mean.

      I guess it all comes down to ( Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful, who can understand it" ) meaning the heart "even hides from itself" in its real motives for believing in what we choose to believe, and behaving the way we want to behave while missing out other important bits.

      Since them words were written in Jeremiah all them generations ago, we still keep behaving in the same ways. Them words are just as relevant today as when they were first written, and are also in "Tenor" with the way we still behave now.

      Words like "abuse" and "narcissistic" are good examples of that.

      Words are supposed to carry ( Ideas & thoughts ) yet we see all the time how they can be misused to Cary "negative connotations" about individuals.

      "Narcissistics" original meaning may have been used to describe how a person falls in love with themselves, but we cannot used them words to describe the "whole" person, since that person may have other qualities that far outweighs the bad ones, which we may ignore and take for granted.

      The same goes for the word "abuse" "some" parents may get accused of being abusive in some situation's when really it maybe saving the childs life in the longterm. But then, there are real & genuine Abuse's going on as well.

      Regarding that situation with your son, I can definitely relate to that more than you will ever know. But cannot see the point in mentioning these things when nobody can do a single thing to help.

      When Job lost all his family & was on his death bed, he was "totally alone" with what was going on in his head, with that unspeakable pain.

      All his family was gone, he was convince God also abandoned him, and his 3 closest friends who should have been a support for him, really was just rubbing salt into his wounds with there subtle implications that he "must have" done something wrong to deserve all that, when really he was totally innocent in what he was being accused of.

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      4 weeks ago

      Guess what. Sometimes it's the kid's fault. It's the spouse who will plot against you, it's impossible money demands, it's completely forgetting you exist until they need something, it's being SELFISH and UNGRATEFUL. Stop blaming parents. Sometimes we did our best and got punished anyway.

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      MrBill757 4 weeks ago

      Like the term estrangement, the term “abuse” is often (NOT ALWAYS, to be clear) misused to justify estrangement, divorce, and other relationships in life “IN MY OPINION”!!! And the term “narcissist” fits in that category as well.

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      Antonio50S 4 weeks ago

      To Elizabeth p.s.

      Despite anything I may have said, you know the situation better than anyone Else, But It does sound like your mom is difficult to deal with as well.

      Just keep trying to communicate.

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      Antonio50S 4 weeks ago

      To Elizabeth

      Its sounds like your mom thinks the world of you & loves you more than you will ever know.

      Apologies for me taking the time to explain these things, but we are living in a society were we only here what we want to here, and draw in the friends who tell us what we want to here. That maybe o.k. temporarily, but in the long term you will have permanent damage with your mom & parents, And its a fact, that children who cannot resolve issues with there parents don't do so well in life either, accept for those who broke away from genuine abuses going on.

      Your mom claiming she has no idea what happened is because in her own mind nothing has happened, and thats why it don't make sense to her. Her spending time and money on you is her way of saying how much she loved you, It don't look like she's intentionally trying to dodge points. ( what's in it for you mom other than the fact that she's loves you deep down ? ) what's in it for me pointing these things out ?

      Over the years, have come across many women & men like that, who just don't know what they did wrong, just like MrBiLL, And thats even before we started using words like ( Estrangement ) as justification to Estrange on any grounds.

      Years ago families & elders used to stick together in raising and correcting children. And it was not about whether these pairents & elders were right in everything, but the principals behind working like that were far more important that the mistakes they made, plus it tought the children to respect there parents despite there many faults.

      ( A lot of parents these days are working all alone with no support from others in raising there children ) other than outside negative influences & pear pressures

      Some of these past parents & elders who stuck together may have had personality traits about them that seemed impossible to overcome, but as the years went by & looking back on it, these grownup children learned to appreciate and respect the reasoning & methods behind it. And that's the ( challenge ) your facing. If you see it as a challenge, you may even get to resolve the issue between you and your mom ( in time )

      I know they seem like big thing's now, but that "emotional manipulation" you are talking about are trivial things compared to real abuses going on for which some choose to Estrange. You just have to keep trying to communicate with your mom.

      Plus i don't agree with all this narcissist views about people & parents. I remember back in the 80s a lot of the boy's were calling there girlfriends narcissist probably because they weren't getting what they wanted. Its not a new word.

      There's nothing wrong in a child choosing to go a different direction, if thats what they want, but I have seen children who follow in the same steps as there parents & would not have it any other way, and love it.

      I will tell you what would be unacceptable though, and that is you & people like yourself choosing to go a different direction & never seeing your mom again, and leaving her to wonder for the rest of her life what she did wrong. Thats unacceptable.

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      ElizabethCa 4 weeks ago

      My mother still claims she has absolutely no idea what happened, and I'm just acting distant for no reason. Not that I haven't told her. But every time I provide a reason, she decides that it's not real or that didn't happen or it doesn't make sense or something.

      Trying to dodge points with how much time or money she spent on me is also common. My problems with her are largely emotional manipulation. A parent can be quite willing to spend time and money on a child, and still speak cruelly to them or punish them inappropriately. I daresay it's actually very common - parents are willing to spend any resource to get the child to turn out the way they want. The only thing that's not acceptable is the child choosing to go a different direction. How much time and money she spent or didn't spend isn't the issue - it's how she continually picks fights and acts like I'm being horrible and hateful to her if I make decisions for myself.

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      Antonio50S 4 weeks ago

      MrBill757

      ( Classic Non-sequitur )

      That's a good one. But like I said, most of the things you come out with also apply to yourself as well. Maybe your not listening or jumping to conclusions yourself ?

      I wish I was in your position, I would probably be the happiest man alive ? or maybe not ? But decided to live with a ( Thorn by my side ) in case I loose the faith. Like Paul said, "my "grace" or unmerited, underserved kindness is sufficient you you" Not sure if you understand these things to well, maybe due to your own background & circumstances ?

      But one thing I do know about the Almighty God is, he Loves absolutely everyone, the Rich, the super Rich, the famous & infamous, to the very poor & homeless on the streets. Because deep down, God knows we are all wretched lost souls looking for meaning & purpose in life.

      If the only purpose & meaning we have in this life is our kid's, ( fallible people ) then thats not enough, that can be taken away from us at any moment.

      I love that illustration or parable Jesus mentioned. Regarding a man discovering a treasure. In his excitement, he was that excited in what he discovered, he went and hid it again.

      There are spiritual treasures within the Kingdom Jesus spoke about, that nothing in this world can be compared to it, not even our kids.

      I do know about that unspeakable pain you talk about, may falter again and again, but I ( Absolutely Will Not ) in this life or any other put the Kids before God. That don't mean my faith is perfect, far from it. But I do know God definition of idolatry.

      Job in the Old Testament, Lost all his kids and family via death, but he knew were his loyalties should go to. He waited, and eventually received far More in return for what he lost. Did Job sit around thinking about the past family he lost ??? Maybe, but he had enough faith, trust, and loyalty to know the Almighty Yahweh, Jehovah himself comes first ( live or die ) no matter what. And that only he can ultimately fix the problem.

      Job also made the assumption that God was testing him out by saying ( are we only to accept the good things from him, and not the bad also ? ) that's a good attitude to have when talking of unspeakable pain.

      We may be world's apart, in many ways, or that's how it appears, but I do know one thing, we are all living in this same broken up world, and Every day I see things which I would rather not, so don't assume I don't understand your pain, and don't assume you understand others either.

      Not sure if that ( Classic non-sequitur ) applies since I am trying to look beyond all the reasons for estrangement, and for the pain people go through, by having a higher vision on dealing with them.

      The reasons behind them estrangement are just to many, if its a spiritual problem as you once said, then you have to deal with it in a spiritual sense. But if its a physical one, along with all the fallible reasonings behind why some estrange, then I don't think society as we know it now will resolve the problem.

      But in the end, no matter who we are, it seems we are all effected by this in one way or another.

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      MrBill757 4 weeks ago

      Pearl,

      You have lots of company. You are up against an attitude prevalent among Millenial types. There’s this arrogance among these individuals that says that their parents should know what the problem is between them and their parents when parents want to know why the estrangement. A classic non-sequitur. Gee, Antonio is going to love that one. Our situation is quite similar. Our hearts are broken as well. We paid for son’s college after 2 years of inexpensive community college, helped pay off his car, directed him toward a president of an insurance company resulting in our son beginning a career in that business and enjoying it after graduating from college, paid for the condo on the beach in St Maartin with it’s own pool as their wedding present from us, flew down there first class - no charge using passes from us.......and.....bought an airplane for him to get his pilot’s license at age 16. Oh.... and we homeschooled our kids through hi skrool. So lots of time, love, and finances invested and he wants nothing to do with us. We’ve moved on, pray for him, and wait on God. Banned from seeing his kids too. Don’t even have pictures. Don’t know where his family lives, no phone #, etc. There’s millions like us who for reasons unknown to us (except for Antonio), are left to guess and experience unspeakable pain. I’m sure there’s Lots of manipulating and controlling parents out there but there’s also parents like us who do not deserve treatment like we have. Maybe people like Antonio have experienced real abuse but our kids were loved their whole lives. In our case, it has to be our daughter in law. She was raised in quite a different environment. Statistics show that daughter in laws are a major cause of a son’s estrangement. We have to hope our son will end up as a prodigal and return eventually. We could have done things differently but how we raised them was in an environment of love, caring, and provision - things any parent would do for their kids.

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      Antonio50S 5 weeks ago

      To Pearl.

      There are things in this life that no human being is able to resolve or deal with for you.

      If a Supreme God exists which I know he dose, only he has the power to heal and resolve family issues. That's what he's there for, he's in the business of healing. ( But not always in the way we expect ) but that's were trust comes into it.

      There's a lot of things we put our trust in which we take for granted.

      ( Protons, Electrons, &

      Newtrons ) subatomic particles all work in a similar way as our "Solar System" with Electrons orbiting it's nucleus, Just like the moon orbiting our planet, while the "Earth & Moon" simultaneously orbiting the Sun.

      This same order reaches even further to our "Milky way Galaxy" to the Ends of our Universe.

      Questions Scientists have never answered yet, ( And Never Will ) is were did all the Matter & Energy come from to create our Universe & Cosmos ?

      The answer was always a simple answer. As the Bible Says, ( From Everlasting to Everlasting You Are God ) Everything in life, including the Fossil records, the missing links which should be found even in the ( Cambrian Explosion ) which are not, "all points" to a Higher Supreme God.

      Even Charles Darwin was heartbroken when his Daughter "Annie" died at the age of 10, which not many people know about. Darwin spent years weeping over the death of his Eldest Child Annie, and though most people think Darwin was an atheist, Apparently he was Reading the ( "Royal book of Hebrews" ) New Testament Just before His death. Even Darwin Drew Strength from the Scriptures.

      If God can create our Solar System which we set our clocks by, and create our Universe from nothing. He's able to heal broken relationships, but that takes trust, let him work it out in his time. What you got to loose ? You can only gain. Your choice.

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      Antonio50S 5 weeks ago

      To MrBill

      Please don't think I am making to much of an issue on things, but noticed in most of your posts you keep playing with words, always looking up words to impress yourself & your ego, so you can feel special about yourself.

      Just like to point out, and know you have come across these verses from Act's N/T, but may have chose to ignore them.

      Will tell you something about us human beings. ( Never ) underestimate or assume people are fools because they don't use the same words & Rhetoric as you keep doing. People that dose that are trying to get a following so the can feel better and important about themselves when really they don't have anything to offer anyone.

      People may not use the same wordings & Rhetoric as you use, but inside every person, there's another language going on, and it's not the language of words. They may not use the same wordings, but they are not fool's either. They instinctively know when someone is trying to fool them, that's obvious by a lot of reactions from people towards yourself.

      In ( Act's 4:13 New Testament ) Regarding "Peter and John" before the "Sanhedrin", verse 13 says, people were astonished with Peter & John, Not because of there courage, or because of the power they had to heal people as they did "back then" ( But rather because they were "Unschooled ordinary Men" ) the power they had, they received from Jesus himself after his death, As the Sanhedrin and others realized Peter & John were also with Jesus before his death.

      If speaking in Rhetoric & using big words to impress people was important, then Jesus would have given them that power, but he never. All that meant absolutely nothing to God & Jesus. Some big religious organizations keep using this same Rhetoric as you do BiLL, to impress and draw in the crowds, because they like to feel clever about themselves.

      ( Act's 4:11 ) this used to be a very well known verse years ago, even "Bob Marley" sang a record with these lyrics of verse 11. ( The stone you builders rejected, became the capstone or corner stone ). Jesus himself was the one who was rejected, fulfilling Old Testament prophecies from generations ago, And he himself is the one who has become the "Corner Stone" for all people from any nation, And as verse 12 Says, the famous words we may here people shouting a times, ( v12 "Salvation is found in no-one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved" ) that includes you BiLL. You are only human like the rest full of faults, weaknesses, pretending to know it all, even using terms like ( If I really wanted to blow you away ) Sorry BiLL, and apologies to anyone else as well, But I Really don't like people like BiLL because he puts himself in a position which only "Jesus" has the right to have.

      To most people living now, they maybe thinking Jesus was just another man, But the significant of Jesus birth was so great that the current year we are now living in, started from the year "Zero" when he was born.

      There's absolutely no question about Jesus birth, death & Resurrection, anymore than the existence of the Roman amphitheatres which are still there now to be witnessed, were the Christians were being killed for sport.

      This is documented through out history by historians, paintings, eye witnesses, other writings, including famous people like "Kepler" " "Shakespeare" "Newton" to name just a few.

      Sorry BiLL, but if your own name is going to be remembered in some way like Jesus is, it will only be because your name is written in the book of life. But until then, never going to allow people like yourself to think highly of themselves when all credit has to go to the very highest. The Almighty himself & Jesus, Not you BiLL. Not Going to allow you to take any credit at all for God taking the initiative to send his Son for the benefit of the whole world.

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      Pearl w. Read 5 weeks ago

      Broken, My daughter does not want relationship with me and. I have no way to reach her - no phone number, email, address, FB etc. I am hurt beyond words.

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      Antonio50S 5 weeks ago

      To Elizabeth

      It's a shame your Mom was not willing to look at herself as well, otherwise counseling would have been good.

      ( Maybe you can suggest to her that counseling or parent and daughter counseling only works when each individual is willing to listen to the other )

      Communication is the best way to resolve issues, you mom may need to understand that first, and when she does, then counseling will be ideal. But keep working at it. In the meantime you can only deal with your own reactions to your mom, and maybe develop some personal coping techniques to help you through it for now. It takes time to resolve issues, so it maybe best just dealing with each moment as it comes, much easier dealing with things on a daily basis, moment to moment.

      Take no notice of people like Bill who keep insisting on giving definite fixed answers, only you know your situation better than anybody else. It's obvious BiLL has failed big time with his own kids, and therefore pretending to have experience, when really he's just trying to control other peoples thinking because of his own past failures. I Don't mean to offend anyone, "but Bill is an idiot"

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      Antonio50S 5 weeks ago

      To MrBill P.S.

      I do know the word "Elitist" can have various meanings these days, but found it really surprising you using words like that while claiming ( Scripture is my Authority ) at the same time.

      I did say before that I consider myself to be a ( free thinker ) that's why I agree and choose to believe the teachings of Jesus. ( Free thinking )

      I did mention just a few things about the teachings of Jesus, but noticed you could not relate, or identify with them. Or that's how it comes over. And even if you can relate to them, you give the impression you don't which is just as bad as denying the Jesus himself.

      Jesus own words here. ( Luke 9:26 ) "Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the son of man, ( Jesus ) will be ashamed of him when he arrives"

      Jesus disciples never claimed to be Elite, it's people like you Bill that's doing the accusations, making comments like ( Elitist not welcome ) and attacking them. It was the religious Pharisees of Jesus day that kept making attacks on Jesus, just like the attacks your making on others who try and think for themselves.

      Jesus disciples never did anything wrong to deserve death, yet they were all killed, put to death in one way or another just for holding to there faith. They were even killed in the Roman amphitheater for sport, And why should they denounce there beliefs when they saw Jesus heal the sick, raise the dead, even seeing Jesus own resurrection 3 days after being crucified ?

      You talk about striving for excellence, flying your helicopter, boasting that you let your daughter of with 20,000 when really you was using that as an opportunity to talk about ( you ) again, talking over other's, and setting your own view's more superior than other's. Nearly everything you come out with, your guilty of yourself, ( Elitist not welcome ) these days Elitist can mean anything, but going by the general language you keep using along with your view of others & the world, that description fits you better.

      You MrBill don't have anything to offer anyone, other than trying to trap people's thinking into set rules, honour thy father and mother ? you must be feeling rejected big time to keep going on about that one.

      Jesus words, ( the truth will set you free ) even though it's a hard road to follow, by making sacrifices for that truth, in the end that truth will set you free. That's something you will never be able to offer Bill.

      But in the meantime, keep looking up words in the dictionary to try and WOW everybody with your useless knowledge which don't have the power to save. Only Jesus & his words can do that.

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      Antonio50S 5 weeks ago

      To Elizabeth.

      Yes i did notice in that post you sent that your mom was refusing to go counseling ( unless ) you told the truth.

      Any doctor, counselor, psychiatrist will tell you that a person has to ( be willing ) themselves to make changes, otherwise it's no point. If your mom is not willing then it's obvious to everyone that both of you being there is a waste of time.

      You are better of just dealing with the problem from your end. What else can you do ?

      Regarding MrBill, He knows all this, but just hears what he wants to hear. And really just having a go at me because I pointed out the obvious to him.

      To MrBill. Already mentioned that I did not want, or like interacting with people like yourself. But will answer 1-2 one of your comments.

      ( Elitist not welcome here ) that's a huge contradiction coming from you.

      You call yourself a Christian, yet when proved wrong, you go into attack mode. Lovely coming from you. ( Scripture is my Authority ) while missing out all the teachings of Jesus himself, yet you accuse me of being ( Elite ) ?

      Talk about( Elitist ) will quote your own words to you, and see if this really don't apply to you, since people that use these types of words are really just ( Misdirecting ) from themselves. Seen people like yourself, including groups using these ( Misdirecting ) tactics many times before.

      Quote, to give up after sitting down in one session "demonstrates" ( TO ME ) ( what's so special about you MrBill ? Why would anybody want to "demonstrate" anything to you ? What's so special about you ??? ) You failed with your own kids big time.

      Quote, ( It's interesting to hear others talk of religion, ( TO ME ) it's just "there" world view. ( Meaning your are absolutely right in everything you are saying, or its just your own views as well, and distorted ones at that )

      That sounds like ( Elitist ) views to me. Since everything is all about you, and also likely the reason you are having trouble with your own daughter's and kids. ( If I disclosed all that personal information about myself MrBill, I would be feeling embarrassed by now ) which is probably why your making attacks on me, ( Misdirecting again ) but it's all good. People get to learn about people like yourself. Good experience.

      If I thought any opposing views were causing some people difficulties or even confusing them, then yes, shutting down them views would be appropriate in them circumstances, ( TILL ) the individual could work things out for themselves. If you MrBill was in a counseling session, I would encourage any counselor or group coordinator to ask people like you to leave the Room. The purpose of a group would be for the benefit of the whole group, and not just one person's own fixated views about others which they should not be having to begin with.

      Don't like it ? Deal with it.

      Whatever is posted on this site may be fair game, but if I was the author I would not post any of your comments to begin with, for reasons already mentioned.

      No matter what you say with MrBill, could easily prove you wrong, but really don't need to, and don't think it's worth it either, so don't be surprised if you get ignored. Your name only came onto it because of Elizabeth, otherwise would have ignored your comment MrBill.

      Just deal with it.

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      ElizabethCa 5 weeks ago

      @Antonio50S The problem is that not only does she not want to change, she's absolutely insistent on trying to change me. She's convinced that she has a right to have me answer any question she asks about my life, and to continue to talk to me as to why I should be doing things her way for as long as she wants. The practical result is that we can't have a decent relationship unless I'm completely obedient to her, because otherwise it's one constant stream of her trying to correct me, and getting upset and angry if I don't accept her correction. She has also said things like, if I ask her to not talk about a certain subject, that's proof that I'm just being rebellious and need to talk the subject over with her more. She's also convinced if I don't accept what she wants me to do, it's because of some personal problem I have with her and not just me deciding to do something differently based on the information I have.

      @MrBill757, I don't know what you saw, but you'll notice in my comment that my mother refused to work with counseling until I "told the truth" - meaning told the counselor what my mother wanted me to tell the counselor. Sometimes you can tell pretty quickly that counseling isn't going to help. If my mother's only going to work with a counselor that doesn't challenge her ever and in a counseling situation where I don't say anything she doesn't agree with, that's not a situation where family counseling is going to do anything. And you can't force anyone to go anyway - my mother said she'd only go if I agreed to "stop lying," which would defeat the point.

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      MrBill757 5 weeks ago

      A few observations. In my view, (It’s sad one has to clarify with “in my view”) to announce that what they say is merely opinion), one session of counseling will not solve any problems. To give up after sitting down one time demonstrates to me that the person giving up really isn’t interested in solving the problem in the first place. They’re just looking for an excuse not to obtain reconciliation. On another note, I love that term “inappropriate”, another tool that people on the Left use in their attempt to shut down opposing viewpoints. If one disagrees, the disagreement is deemed “inappropriate” and thus whatever is said has no validity. Whatever is posted on this site is fair game for comment. Elitists not welcome.

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      Elly The Autistic 5 weeks ago

      To Sarah:

      I may have sounded harsh in earlier comments about steadfastly (with the support of my husband) keeping the doors firmly closed to both sides of our families. However... IF someone did approach us with your attitude? We 'might' crack a window...

      Peace be with you.

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      Sarah 5 weeks ago

      Hi guys. Good discussion, and ty to all, bc somehow this has really helped me get troigh a tough couple of days. So, yeah, I'm a GenX who raised an anxious millennial. I learned, in counseling, that it is largely because I/we exposed her those two different value systems (my parents' and our own). The disparity created pervasive uncertainty throughout childhood and teenage years. I apologize to her for this wheneveer appropriate, and I make gauge every interaction moving forward so that it is honest, respectful and consistent. It seems to be working. So: 1) If, in general, millenials seem anxious, idk, maybe there's some kind of dichotomy that didnt exist for past generations, and 2) If you're on the parenting end of this, it really is possible to own your part in the dysfunction and change. - Just throwing those ideas out there

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      Susan 5 weeks ago

      Full Circle,I don't know if you're still reading this blog but I believe your comments, which were posted two months ago, are the most salient and helpful of all the replies. I wish other estranged adult children could read them. I also wish there were a way to contact you privately.

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      Gabrielle 5 weeks ago

      I am a Millennial.

      I also have general anxiety, depression, and anorexia. My mother has NPD tendencies and my father is an enabler who would rather have peace than a conversation.

      And no, it's not because I am an entitled Millennial that I struggle with my parents. It's because when one refuses to have discussions that might be emotionally taxing, and when the other is "I'm right, you're wrong, and your memories are false", there IS no conversation to be had. You keep your head down and the pain becomes a daily life. Until someone comes along and says "you're hurting! What's wrong?!"

    working